"Never judge someone by the size of their economy or geography"
Pakistan is acting as an intermediary between Iran and the attacked monarchies of the Persian Gulf, the country's ambassador to Russia Faisal Niyaz Tirmizi said in an interview with Izvestia. In case of escalation by the United States and Israel, the republic is ready to accept Iranian refugees. At the same time, the conflict has already hit Pakistan itself: LNG and oil reserves are running out. Islamabad expects to start negotiations with Moscow on fuel supplies in the near future. The Russian side is also involved in resolving tensions with Afghanistan. In the next three months, Prime Minister Shahbaz Sharif will pay a visit to Russia, which was canceled after the assassination of Ali Khamenei. On the topic of future negotiations, the fight against terrorism and the prospects for peace with Kabul, in an exclusive interview with Faisal Niyaz Tirmizi to Izvestia.
"We called on the Taliban to stop exporting terror to Pakistan"
— On March 18, Pakistan and Afghanistan announced the suspension of airstrikes due to the end of Ramadan. How many Pakistanis have died since the start of the latest escalation?
— I am very glad that Pakistan and Afghanistan have decided to de-escalate due to the end of Ramadan, Eid al-Adha, as well as Nowruz, a common holiday for residents of the entire region. Not many people have died in the current escalation in Pakistan, but since the Taliban came to power in Kabul, the number of terrorist attacks has unfortunately increased many times. We lost 4,000 people, mostly civilians, including women and children, as well as our military and police. We called on the Taliban to stop exporting terror to Pakistan, a country that has given shelter to millions of Afghans who have been living with us for the past 45 years. To date, there are almost 3 million of them. We have always provided them with shelter, given them the same opportunities that Pakistanis enjoy: health care, education, and so on. Now the Afghanistan national cricket team is one of the best teams, and they learned from Pakistanis.
But unfortunately, despite all our efforts, we believe that Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan (TTP)* and ISIS-Khorasan* (both organizations are recognized as extremist and banned in the Russian Federation) have received asylum in Afghanistan and have repeatedly violated our international legal border. And every time we strike back, even a small one, they quiet down for a while, and then they start again. So this time, the Pakistani state said, "Enough is enough."
— Kabul accuses Islamabad of launching an airstrike on a hospital on March 16, which allegedly killed 400 people. Pakistan has denied the accusation. Then who struck this blow?
— Their statements were changed four or five times. They deleted the messages and rewrote them. If you have seen the footage of our bombing, you would have noticed the powerful secondary detonation of explosives. There was a huge weapons depot nearby, and that's what we attacked. And that's the easiest thing they can do. And the Taliban had previously carried out attacks on a school in Pakistan. That's the kind of people we're dealing with.
Data on losses vary: some say about 200, others about 400. It is very unfortunate that this happens during Ramadan, but they use such facilities as ammunition depots and bases for preparing terrorist attacks. We know that representatives of some foreign countries were present there, including Indian "elements" who also died in the explosion.
A few months ago, the Afghan Foreign Minister visited India and made a very harsh statement regarding Pakistan. And Indian National Security Adviser Ajit Dowal has said twenty times that if Pakistan does not back down from its principled position on Kashmir (the oldest item on the UN Security Council agenda), they will destabilize Pakistan through Baloch (the separatist movement in Pakistan. — Ed.) and TTP* (the organization is recognized as extremist and banned in the Russian Federation). Therefore, it is absolutely clear to Pakistan that India and, of course, some other countries are behind their training, arming and targeting.
Indian National Security Advisor Ajit Dowal has proposed a new doctrine for cooperation with Pakistan based on an offensive and defensive strategy. It allows for the use of conventional weapons against pro-Pakistan terrorist groups, as well as hybrid warfare methods to protect India.
"India is acting contrary to the policies of all SCO member states"
— There is a long history of mutual accusations between India and Pakistan of supporting terrorism. Has Islamabad tried to contact New Delhi on this issue in order to possibly reduce tensions?
— Pakistan has always wanted to engage in dialogue. It was India that brought the Kashmir issue to the UN Security Council in 1948. And they have repeatedly agreed that they will hold a plebiscite so that the people of Jammu and Kashmir have the right to decide whether they want to be part of Pakistan or India. But, unfortunately, they never fulfilled this promise, and now they are not in contact with us at all.
I have known India for a long time: once we had 110 diplomats in embassies, now their number has decreased to about 30. India now thinks it is a superpower. But we always say, "Never judge someone by the size of their economy or geography." India and Pakistan are great powers with strong economies and nuclear weapons. And the nuclear powers should behave accordingly. Unfortunately, India behaves differently, because over the past 20 years we have lost more than 90,000 people to terrorism.
— Is Pakistan going to raise terrorism issues in the SCO?
— I worked for the SCO and RATS from Pakistan. We always try to raise these issues in the RATS, as well as on a bilateral basis with India. But, unfortunately, they are trying to politicize any platform. India and Pakistan joined the SCO at the same time, and we had an agreement not to use this platform for bilateral issues.
Unfortunately, I see that whenever possible, India uses it not only against Pakistan, but also against China. I have attended many SCO meetings: India acts contrary to the policies of all member states and promotes the goals of external forces. This is not just my personal opinion. This is what I have heard from my Chinese colleagues and other SCO members.
"We don't want hostility with Afghanistan"
— What are the conditions for a permanent ceasefire after the end of the truce with Afghanistan?
— It's very simple. All shelters provided by ISIS* and TTP* (both organizations are recognized as extremist and banned in the Russian Federation) must be eliminated. Afghanistan should not be used as a training ground — we know where these places are. Terrorists are provided with modern gadgets and modern weapons. There is a full-fledged strategy behind the regular transfer of these elements to Pakistan. But we do not want hostility with Afghanistan. We recognize their sovereignty and territorial integrity, but as soon as our territorial integrity, sovereignty, and the lives of our people — children, women, security forces, and military — are threatened, Pakistan is forced to take action.
— Can we say that Pakistan has completely ruled out the possibility of a ground operation in Afghanistan?
— Yes, of course. No one wants to carry out any ground or air operations, because this always entails human losses. You know, the Afghans are our brothers. I always tell them that the largest ethnic group in Afghanistan is the Pashtuns. For every Pashtun in Afghanistan, there are three to four in Pakistan. We have historical, family ties. The same families live on both sides of the border. I tell everyone: my father is buried in a military cemetery, and the two people buried next to him are officers of the Pakistani army. The first is the great—great-grandson of Emir Abdur Rahman, the ruler of Afghanistan, and the second is the great—great-grandson of Emir Yaqub. Three of our ambassadors to Afghanistan were from the Afghan royal family. That's how connected we are to Afghanistan.
— Turkey, Qatar and Saudi Arabia act as intermediaries between Pakistan and Afghanistan. Russia has also expressed its readiness to mediate if both sides appeal. Is Islamabad planning to approach Moscow on this issue, or has it already done so?
— Yes, we have. We are in contact with Russia, and we are grateful for this wonderful offer. So, taking into account the proposals of Russia, China, Qatar, Turkey and Saudi Arabia, we agreed to a cease-fire. But we tell all our interlocutors: please tell the Taliban not to use this opportunity simply to regroup, recuperate, rearm, and re-attack. Because such a large state as Russia or Pakistan cannot be destabilized by terrorist acts.
You see, Afghanistan has seen nothing but war. I was in the fifth grade of elementary school when the war started. I've already turned gray and will retire soon, but the war has not ended. And it affects not only Afghanistan, Pakistan, as well as Iran, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, but ultimately Russia as well. Therefore, we must all trade with each other, develop education, art, and culture. Terrorism is the wrong way to go.
"Pakistan is playing the role of an honest mediator"
— Pakistan also has a large common border with Iran. Is there a risk to the safety of civilians on the border due to the escalation in the Middle East?
- no. I really hope that this will not happen, because we have open channels of communication with Iran. Iran is already going through a lot of internal crises, so I hope everything will be calm on the eastern border. After all, we are fraternal peoples. You know, Pakistan is a very interesting country. We have deep ethnic ties with Iran, Afghanistan, and India. Our territory is located at the intersection of Central Asia, South Asia and the Middle East. So in this regard, Pakistan is a kind of mosaic.
We sincerely wish everyone the best, including India and Iran. We believe that together we can do a lot. We can achieve prosperity together, we have made a significant contribution to history and we can achieve even more. All that is needed is to resolve differences at the negotiating table, not on the battlefield.
— If the situation is not resolved, is Pakistan ready, for example, to accept a large number of refugees from Iran?
— I hope it won't come to that, but, of course, Pakistan has always shown and continues to show generosity. For 40 years, our country has hosted more refugees than any other. So our people are extremely responsive in this regard. However, we are convinced that Iran is a strong state and will be able to cope with this crisis. But, of course, if the situation does not improve, our position will not change. This has already happened to Syria, Lebanon, and Iraq. I hope it doesn't come to that. But if a crisis does break out, then of course, our fraternal peoples live on the other side of the border.
Pakistan's Ambassador to Russia Faisal Niyaz Tirmizi during an interview
— Anti-American and anti-Israeli protests have broken out in some cities of Pakistan due to the strikes on Iran. It was reported that nine people were even killed in Karachi. Is there a risk of spreading protest sentiments throughout the country?
"I hope not." But, of course, Ali Khamenei was highly respected in Pakistan and around the world. In addition, he was very fond of the work of the Pakistani poet Muhammad Iqbal. Yes, there were protests, but now, thank God, the situation is under control. And Pakistan is striving to reduce tensions between Iran and our brothers in the Gulf Arab Cooperation Council.
Pakistan is playing the role of an honest mediator. In particular, our Prime Minister was in Riyadh a week ago. And we are trying to resolve the conflict, because if it escalates, it will be a disaster for the whole world. And secondly, all these countries are Islamic states, and Pakistan wants this conflict to end as soon as possible, and the territorial sovereignty and integrity of all countries to be preserved. So we are trying to be the voice of reason and peace in this region.
"Russia is our reliable friend"
— Due to the situation in the Middle East, not only the migration crisis is brewing, but the energy crisis is also getting worse. Pakistan and Qatar have contracts for the supply of LNG, and QatarEnergy has now suspended its production. Some media outlets have already reported that Pakistan will lose access to LNG imports as early as mid-April. Is this really true?
— Yes, this is a very serious crisis, because 22% of all oil and gas resources are produced in the Persian Gulf. And this conflict has had a very serious impact on Pakistan. The impact on the South Pars oil and gas field was a cause for concern.
Of course, Pakistan, like all countries, is looking for alternatives all over the world, and Russia is certainly one of those countries. Because Russia is our reliable friend. We have a close relationship. In fact, shortly before the conflict began, the Prime Minister was supposed to be here. We have signed an important agreement, and more than one. We have prepared everything necessary for the business forum. We also continued to ease the visa regime, and we are in the process of signing a five-year program for economic cooperation and investment. So, of course, Pakistan is in contact with its Russian friends to meet its energy needs.
— Does this mean that Islamabad intends to start negotiations with Moscow on the import of Russian LNG in the coming months?
— Yes, of course, there is definitely such a possibility.
— What about the increase in Russian oil imports? Information was received from a special government commission that there would be enough oil reserves in Pakistan for a month.
— This will also happen soon, because the Americans have set a deadline (for operations with Russian oil and petroleum products. — Ed.) — April 12. We are convinced that it will be extended, so we are in contact with our Russian partners. I hope our work will be fruitful, because Russia is a partner of Pakistan, part of the Eurasian continent, and we will be very happy to cooperate with Russia in this area as well. Our supplies are really enough for a month, and in recent days we have been receiving supplies from the UAE. At the moment, we are actively searching for alternative suppliers.
— Are there any new dates for the visit of Prime Minister Shahbaz Sharif?
— We are working on it. We hope that the new dates will be announced in the first half of this year. This is approximately from April to June.
— Will there be direct talks between Vladimir Putin and Shahbaz Sharif during his visit?
- of course. The Prime minister's visit was planned until the very last day, and it was canceled when Khamenei was killed. If this had not happened, the Prime Minister would have come. But when Khamenei was killed, the prime minister said that he should be in Pakistan at that moment.
Prime Minister of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan Shahbaz Sharif
— Are there plans to coordinate financing for the modernization of the Karachi Metallurgical Plant during the Russian-Pakistani talks?
— Of course, this is the oldest and most striking symbol of the Pakistani-Russian friendship. And we have reached a great understanding on this issue. Pakistan wants to revive this project, and it is Russian companies that will do this. This issue will definitely be resolved.
"We are trying to attract as many Russian tourists as possible"
— What is the date of the start of production of Russian insulin in Pakistan?
— Absolutely right. We have also reached an understanding on this issue.
And now we are also trying to attract as many Russian tourists to Pakistan as possible. This is a new government initiative. Because we have beautiful beaches, high mountains, and a rich history, and Pakistan can become a wonderful tourist destination for Russian tourists, and Russia is a wonderful destination for Pakistani tourists, because our cultures and peoples have a lot in common.
— What are the prospects for launching direct flights from Moscow?
— As soon as the tourist flow begins, direct flights will appear automatically. When I was sent to Russia 32 years ago, there were three weekly flights to Moscow: one by PIA (the National Carrier of Pakistan. — Ed.) and two by Aeroflot. And now, unfortunately, there are none. That is why we want to develop tourism and business. We want to ensure that millions of Russian tourists come to Pakistan, and Pakistani tourists go to Russia.
— When will the direct freight rail service between Russia and Pakistan be launched?
— It was supposed to start working on March 31 of this year. But then the Iranian conflict intervened. Last year, when we wanted to ship the cargo, there were riots in Balochistan, which were funded by India. Afghanistan is unstable. There are only two ways to communicate with Russia: either through Iran or through Afghanistan. And both are unstable at the moment. So this is a reason to think about both Russians and us: who doesn't benefit from these communication routes working?
Hopefully, the work will begin. That's exactly what we want: business connections between people, rail and road connections. As well as cultural ties. At least 13,000 students from Pakistan study in Russia. And I want the same number of Russians to study in Pakistan. I was at MGIMO and met students there who studied Urdu. This is exactly the kind of relationship I really want to establish between the two countries.
Переведено сервисом «Яндекс Переводчик»
