"They said in Hollywood: "It's a joke. You can't shoot at that level."
"It's Hard to be a God" is not just a TV series. It's a cinematic experience, says producer and showrunner Teymur Jafarov. One of the most ambitious domestic projects in recent years could not take place for a number of reasons: from the lost rights to the Strugatsky brothers' book to the financing of the original idea. I had to prove again why, after two film adaptations, a new look at this story was needed. "" In an exclusive interview with Izvestia, Jafarov told how he wrested the rights to the story from Hollywood, why he blindly sent a film crew to Iran, and what does "Kin-dza-dza!" have to do with Danelia.
"You often have to prove almost from scratch what you are worth"
""When we talked to different members of your team, we were told about the same thing: "It's hard to be a screenwriter on It's Hard to Be God, it's hard to be an actor, it's hard to be a director." What was the difficulty of being a producer?
— Yes, in everything. As with any project, there was a fear that we would not succeed. This is a large-scale literature, philosophy, which is incredibly difficult to cope with. And a huge risk. But if you don't take risks and don't try, then why do anything at all?
Let's go back to the beginning. This is the second or even the third approach to the implementation of the project "It's hard to be a god." Many years ago, I already wanted to film this story. We even wrote a script with our colleagues and tried to launch it, but it didn't work out. The temporary backlash over the rights ended, after which they moved to one of the Hollywood companies. I called the Strugatskys, asking them what to do. Then there was a chance to restart the process, I wanted to find some kind of loophole. And I was told about a rather harsh point: if the then copyright holders violate their payment obligations for a certain period of time, you can have time to invest in this window.
Asked: "How much money do you need?" They called the amount. I was lucky that I had already bought the rights once and had some trust in me. We agreed to call the agents. If there is no payment from the Americans by that time, we can try to outbid them. I'm calling on X-day. There is no payment. There are two days left until the deadline. I go all in and send an advance. The terms of the contract are not fulfilled, and the book is automatically returned to us.
— Would it have been possible to buy it back after the expiration of the contract?
- no. If they extend the payments for a certain period of time, the rights are permanently transferred to Hollywood. As a matter of fact, this is what happened to several of the Strugatsky works. And there's nothing you can do about it. Unless you take an exclusive or non-exclusive license from them to create local products, not global ones. And that's if we can come to an agreement. So one of the first victories is the return of this great book to its homeland. And then the long negotiations began: it was necessary to convince a lot of different people to believe in the project.
No one will give money for "very cool". Hollywood has a completely different monetization and economy. When you release films in the United States, they will be seen in Russia, Europe, and China. This is a monetization of a different nature. Yes, we shot the project ten times cheaper than they do, but from an economic point of view, we have a different background. Therefore, one of the main difficulties is to convince the customers and producers that the project is needed and the money will not be thrown away.
— Isn't it strange that you have to prove something? From """""""""""""""" and ""Team Films has many successful projects, from "Jackdaw", "The Thirteenth clinical" to "Reservation" and "Surgeon".
— This is how our industry works: you often have to prove almost from scratch what you are worth. The fact that we have reached the end of this project is a great credit to the entire team: Timur Leonidovich Weinstein, Fyodor Sergeevich Bondarchuk, the Wink platform and the NMG holding. Big, large-scale, world stories are created only where they are willing to take risks. This requires determination, confidence, and courage.
— Criticism is inevitable in such notable projects. How do you perceive it?
— Someone says that there is nothing left of the Strugatskys in the film. I totally disagree. Friends, this is not a book. If you translate the story into timekeeping, God forbid there will be 90 minutes. And we needed to make a TV series. The most important thing is to preserve and convey the meanings laid down by the authors to the audience, including another generation of viewers who blog and watch reels. Storytelling and modern visual language — the ability to tell and show a story - can interest and engage young people. Without a certain touch of action and an event sequence that will affect them, this is unrealistic.
Most people, especially young people, hardly read today. It is clear that there are very smart, talented, wonderful guys. We tried to interest both of them.
The nature of the modern youth media environment is determined by the different possibilities of the Internet compared to traditional media — it is a universe in which many trends, pieces of content, comments and reactions to it are born and die every minute. The audience in our world instantly flows from one universe to another, and its reaction determines the form and content of the content. And she always has a choice of where to go, and also this audience generates content on a cosmic scale.
"I'm never completely satisfied with what I do."
— Today it is generally accepted that the viewer is more willing to go to stories that do not require thinking while watching. That's not going to work with the Strugatskys.
— I fight for each of our projects so that every viewer can find something for themselves. For someone to come up with certain pictorial solutions and a story. And someone saw what the Strugatskys had planted as grain. When I communicate with people I trust, who are deep and erudite, they see it. But not from the first episode, because the first one is still an expositional one. Then they say, "Listen, you managed to save the Strugatskys." Therefore, watch and let's discuss where it succeeded and where it failed. And most importantly, why did something succeed and something did not? I am ready to answer these questions.
— Can you imagine that someone won't be captured by Arkanar?
— We live in an age when everyone has so many interests that it is simply impossible to satisfy everyone. You can't force the viewer to consume this or that content. This is especially true, as I said above, and this is important, for content for teenagers and youth audiences. You can also look at audience preferences from a different perspective — each person, due to the specifics of the social networks they use and their algorithms, can and does form their own content, their own vision of reality, into which, if desired, no one can be allowed at all.
Of course, I flatter myself that every Russian citizen will watch "It's Hard to be a God." It seems to me that the efforts put in by the whole team make it clear that the project was made on a global level.
When I showed the materials to the big producers in Hollywood who were filming "Formula 1" with Brad Pitt, they didn't believe me. They said: "It's a joke. You can't shoot at that level." I think we should be proud of this, despite possible mistakes.
— And what mistakes do you see in the series?
— We are talking about cinema as an art in the first place. Perhaps, somewhere I would like to do it differently. Somewhere there was not enough money, somewhere there was not enough time. In this project, I was responsible for both the economic component as a producer and for creativity as a showrunner. It's very hard to get married.
It's not easy for me at all, I'm never completely satisfied with what I'm doing. No matter what the project is, I see flaws every time. There is such a rule: installation cannot be completed, it can only be stopped. And it's true. The best is the enemy of the good. The audience should see the project on time.
— Now that the series has been released, we can appreciate this grand scale.
— Intuition and experience helped to assemble a large professional team. Sometimes you really have to prove with foam at the mouth, in confrontation, in discussions, that this should be the case exclusively. It's hard. In this project, from my point of view, there were three whales: Andrey Zolotarev, Dmitry Tyurin and yours truly. But they listened to me, and I listened to them when I realized that their ideas and suggestions would be right for the project.
The producer's task is to make everyone jump above their heads. Overcoming certain difficulties, pushing, helping, persuading each member of the film crew to do more than he could. And the artists did more than they could. And the cameraman, and the administrator, and the director, and the screenwriter... Everyone did a little bit more than they expected. And when we look at this canvas — and it's a cinematic one — we understand that each episode can be perceived as a full meter.
"There wasn't enough money for the implementation that we originally wanted"
— Speaking of finances, how much has the budget changed from the planned to the final?
— Not much, not more than 10%. There was not enough money for the implementation that was initially wanted. "Moskino" film Park and Sergey Semenovich Sobyanin helped. The Moscow government provided the opportunity to build the scenery. And this is 6.5 hectares of land, 42 buildings, 1400 square meters. m space stations. Everything was built in three months with a guarantee that it will stand for 10 years. Moreover, the project documentation was completed in two months.
""It's hard to be a God"" Scenery on the set of the Moskino Film Park
In fact, what is done and how is, to a certain extent, a miracle, starting with the construction of the scenery and ending with everything else. We went to Tunisia, Morocco. ""I walked around the sets of Ridley Scott's "Gladiator" and Martin Scorsese's "Kundun" and thought about how to combine them all. People can't build a house on time, and we had to create a civilization from scratch in great detail.
""""It's Hard to be a God" has been compared to "Dune" and "Game of Thrones." Do you like to stand in line with these paintings?
— Already at the initial stage, we understood that if we went into the medieval world of the West, we would stand in a comparative row with a large number of projects and would not be able to create something fundamentally new in it. We understand the earthly European Middle Ages: we still go into knight's armor and swords on a whim.
I sat down to think which way to turn so that it would be a self-sufficient world. And I came across the best fantasy film of all time, made in the Soviet Union by one of my outstanding and beloved directors, Georgy Danelia, "Kin-dza-dza!" ""When I analyzed the minimalism of Kin-dza-dza!", this engineering adaptability with a gravity lift, with a pepelac, I said: "Oh, guys, we have to turn around there."
— Why did Iran arise?
— First we came to Morocco, went through all the scenery where "Game of Thrones" was filmed. I thought we found our Arkanar there. By the way, Christopher Nolan shot "Odyssey" later in the same city. So if we had settled on Morocco, we would have looked like it too. And then suddenly at some point I say, "Guys, we need to go to Iran." Whatever you understand, I've never been to Iran.
— And how did you understand that?
— I believe that this is a great Persian civilization, which has given a lot to the world, including the Western one. And when our group leaves for Tunisia, I say, "Guys, you're going to Iran first." They say, "Which Iran? Are you crazy?" As a result, we flew to the location. And after a while Dima Tyurin calls me and says, "I don't believe it. You knew." And he sends photos. """"""And they have exactly the aesthetic that was closer to "Kin—dze-dze!" than "Odyssey", "Game of Thrones", "Gladiator" and Scorsese.
— Which result of "It's hard to be a God" would you personally consider a production victory: millions of viewers, Wink figures, continuation of the story or the project's exit outside Russia?
— Success is the number of viewers who will watch the series, and also the recognition of colleagues. But these are completely different criteria when your colleagues and friends say, "The bar has been set. It was a challenge, and you handled it." Can one exclude the other? Quite. Then there may be international success. The project may not receive support from colleagues, or receive a significant audience response. And then go out into the world, and the world will say: "Listen, they shot a cool project in Russia. Wow." This is the third criterion. And, of course, the audience's interest. For me personally, as for any person who wants to succeed, all the points must add up.
— Is there a chance that "It's Hard to be a God" will be watched all over the world?
— Of course, but for many reasons beyond our control and control, this is not an easy question.
"Cinema is a business. No matter how much we want to talk about it, it's art."
— This summer, there was a significant conflict in the domestic film distribution around "The Last Hero. Kolobok" and "Spider-Man". Fans of the superhero were outraged by the postponement of the release. Is it right to clear a platform for the exit of large Russian projects, fearing competition with Western ones?
— Some of our viewers can watch Western movies using a VPN, while others watch Asian ones. But in both cases, we understand that their narratives are embedded in these projects. And we know how to return the audience's interest. We want and must make sure that the audience turns towards our content: modern, sharp, with beautiful characters, excellent drama and production, and most importantly, important to us and the audience. With our inherent meanings that we would like to convey.
They say: "There was a heyday of Soviet cinema." And it has a lot to do with the fact that its economic model made it possible not to compete directly with Western films of that time. And when the cinema became of high quality, and for this the industry and the corresponding economic model had to develop, we competed on equal terms with Western, Hollywood films. And that's not always the case: sometimes our films were better, sometimes theirs. The thing is that k eno is a business. No matter how much we want to talk about it being art. Yes, art. But the component that allows it to exist is business. We won't be able to achieve something really cool if we don't create certain benefits - economic tools that will allow our producers, artists, and screenwriters to work.
For example, the "Game of Thrones" series cost between $5 million and $15 million over the years. This is open information. We look at it and are amazed at how it is done. But we can't pay the same amount as in Hollywood. It turns out that the viewer, coming to the cinema and finding himself in a situation of choice, will always prefer a more hyped one for the same ticket price.
In order for a high-quality domestic product to appear at some point for the same money, it is necessary to create a production cycle, an industry, and grow screenwriters and directors. Because anyone in this chain can make the whole project collapse. Law enforcement tools for creating prerequisites for the development of the industry are an important component.
— "Game of Thrones" has been mentioned many times. You've probably heard about the actress Lena Headey, who played Cersei Lannister. She stated that because of her age, she was actually left without a job: the producers did not offer her normal roles, and if they did, they were minor characters. Is there such a problem in Russia?
— It's not a problem of age. This is a role problem. I was lucky enough to cross paths with Alexander Gavrilovich Abdulov several times. He could take all the attention to himself with one gesture, so that you couldn't get away from him later. Alexander Gavrilovich played Lavr Varshavsky in the TV series "Next". He did it so brilliantly that people began to perceive him exclusively as this character. Even such a great artist was trapped in his role. That's why Lena Headey is perceived this way, and it's very difficult for her to get out of this image.
It's not a question of age or the needs of the industry. The casting director calls the actor, discusses him with the producer, the director. Then they say, "There's an artist playing here." But we still can't get rid of his previous cool role, and we need the actor to turn around in a completely different way, and we believe in the character.
— Considering that you have realized your main childhood dream, what's next?
— I would like to take it a little easier. You know, to some extent we can talk about a total crisis. I'm talking about the total crisis of serial film production: the shortage of ideas and their implementation.
- why?
— A lot of decisions are made based on how modern studios are set up. There used to be a producer and there was a creator. Now the approach is due to the development of many other processes. With this approach, people, due to different circumstances, are still not obliged to understand what result the creator will eventually give.
A very good example is the "Matrix". If "The Matrix" were being launched now, any Hollywood studio making decisions about launching the project would say: "Listen, what is this about? A man instead of a battery, some kind of strange world, machines have taken over humanity. Well, that's some kind of nonsense. What for? This is incomprehensible to the viewer. Who's going to do this? Who will buy the ticket? It will be a failure, and we will spend a lot of money." The budget of the first "Matrix" was $63 million, so the project really required serious investments.
But any breakthrough is a revolution. In a good way: industrial, creative, ideological. And when the decision is made collectively, and responsibility is delegated to many employees, as in the huge holdings of Sony and Disney, there are fewer and fewer revolutionary ideas. In creative work, responsibility should not be collegial. People who have a certain pool of trust should have it. So that they can create cool projects together with the creators.
— And even in "It's Hard to be a God," a project that has attracted the efforts of many companies and even more people, is the responsibility still personal?
- yes. I am eternally grateful to Timur Weinstein, Fyodor Bondarchuk, NMG Holding and the Wink platform, and the NTV channel for giving me this pool of trust. If there weren't people who are willing to take risks, we wouldn't have succeeded.
Переведено сервисом «Яндекс Переводчик»
