"Everything that is talented is based on personal experience"
The audience is tired of the darkness, but not of dramatic stories, says Konstantin Bogomolov, artistic director of the Malaya Bronnaya Theater and the Melnikov Stage. Even inside a catastrophe like the Great Patriotic War, people want to catch the breath of life. According to the director, this is exactly the story of the play "And the dawns here are quiet ...", created by Anton Okoneshnikov on the Stage of Melnikov. In an exclusive interview with Izvestia, Konstantin Bogomolov told how to talk to the audience about the Great Patriotic War today, why he rarely goes to the theater himself, and whether he plans to move his other performances to Bronnaya after Novaya Optimisticheskaya.
"It's not easy to work with such material as Vasiliev's novel"
— You called "The dawns here are quiet..." the manifesto of the theater. Why?
— It seems to me that this performance is quite unique for theatrical Moscow, if not more so for theatrical Russia. It is not easy to work with such material as Vasiliev's novel. There are a lot of delicate areas. A tragic, dark and difficult story. When we often see work with this kind of material, we recall the cynical expression "Danish performances" — that is, staged specifically for dates when theaters and cultural institutions are trying to work out an event and then report back.: "Well, we're doing great." We didn't want to do that—we didn't want to be formal.
Our performance was created by a young director and young artists. It turned out to be absolutely lively and modern. It's made so sincerely, so precisely, so energetically, so passionately that it hits the young people who come to the gym. This is a very important indicator for me. The audience includes zoomers who grew up in an absolutely prosperous time in an absolutely prosperous country, who are to some extent infected with hedonism and the feeling that everything has always been, is and will be fine. And suddenly they recognize themselves in these heroes who lived 80 years ago. They associate themselves with them. They are shocked by this story and how they live the tragedy of war, struggle, death, and the heroine of the production. I believe that our performance is an example of how to work with such material and how to talk to young people about war, sacrifice, heroism, and the Motherland. I am very proud of him.
— Is it possible to say that the conversation with young people here is conducted in two languages at once — both theatrical and cinematic?
— Yes, but the director uses film stylistics in a new way in theatrical action. This is not just a close-up, thanks to which we can see the faces of the characters, but something more. Technology becomes like an X—ray that illuminates the body of the performance - we see its skeleton and at the same time the inner currents of the characters. With the help of the camera, we plunge into the past, go into the future, where archivists work, who sort out papers, films, photographs. There is a very organic combination of cinema and theatrical stylistics. This is a new way of working with the cinematic image inside the play.
— A young team, directed by Anton Okoneshnikov, worked on the play. Who came to whom with this material?
— I worked a year ago in St. Petersburg at the Alexandrinsky Theater and saw a very vivid children's play by Okoneshnikov based on Pushkin's fairy tales. I talked to the director, and it seemed to me that he is a very clear, deep, intelligent person with a good prospect in the profession. And then we started discussing the material. I consciously suggested that he make a play for the anniversary of the Great Patriotic War. It seemed to me that he, a young man, might be interested in working with the play that we wanted to stage and coincide with the Victory anniversary.
And then, who exactly came across "And the dawns here are quiet ...", it doesn't matter. It is important that Okoneshnikov agreed. But this is a very risky choice and a brave step in the context of a great movie that everyone has watched.
And I'm also glad of this choice, because there are wonderful roles there, and we have a wonderful collection of wonderful young actresses. And this is a chance for girls to show their acting skills, their gift. I think it happens there.
"The real experience is more silent, uncritical"
— They say that the works of veterans — Boris Vasiliev, Stanislav Rostotsky — are so plausible because their authors saw the war with their own eyes. The girls and boys who play in this play, as well as the director, are not. How do you get to the truth in this case?
— I think that everything is determined by the gift of seeing things in your imagination that you have not experienced, and reproducing it on paper, canvas, film or stage in a special way. So that people who actually witnessed those events would recognize the real in the work, and those who did not see it would be able to get closer to the experiences and really feel them. Therefore, I think that everything is determined by the talent of the actor, the director — and here it is present in an obvious way.
The same applies, it seems to me, to Vasiliev and Rostotsky. It's not just that they're front-line soldiers, although that probably had an impact. The fact is that both are great artists. Maybe it was therapy for them in a way. And for the young guys, it's a new experience, an attempt not to heal, but to arouse themselves and the hearts of the audience.
— Today, when they stage plays about the Great Patriotic War, they make films, as if they talk much more about the magnitude and significance of the feat than about personal stories. Do you think this is the right vector, or do you need to return to people?
— An overload of abstract pathos happens when there is no talent. If people approach things formally, they sometimes focus solely on producing some big slogans and shaking the air. But everything that is talented is based on a very personal experience. The real experience is more silent, uncritical.
In Soviet times, there were absolutely grandiose, brilliant paintings about the events of the Great Patriotic War and about other great, great, tragic historical periods. And there were, you know, poster properties. This is normal, quite natural. It always happens that way. Therefore, when the present appears, it must be greatly appreciated.
"The viewer, as before, is interested in stories, but he is tired of the darkness"
— You are currently working a lot with young people. I am aware of your statement that not all of them are highly educated. The play is running for an incomplete season, and 15-20-year-olds come to it. Do you notice any changes in their perception of these events?
— You know, no. I probably notice more surprise when a performance hits a person emotionally. Apparently, young people have absorbed a lot of low-quality things, and they get this oxygen poisoning. It's a little jarring. They suddenly breathe in air that they haven't breathed, because they're sitting on some social media and scrolling through a feed on the subject of a beautiful life. Maybe they've seen works on the subject, but they haven't reached their hearts. And here it happens. They withdraw a little into themselves. On the one hand, it affects the work of art, and on the other, the realization that it was real.
— Have you noticed globally how the audience has changed now?
— Yes and no. In some ways, the audience has become more demanding, and in some ways less so. We are in the process of changes, and now there is a period when it is very difficult to fix them. Obviously, the aesthetics of the theater and the theatrical language are changing. By the way, and the film language. This is not a crisis. This is a sign of changes that are accumulating, probably latently. Then they will come to the surface, and there will be some new explosion, some new era in terms of language and form. The same thing happens in the theater.
— How do you react to this?
— I took the position of an observer both in relation to the theatrical process, and in relation to the audience, and in relation to myself. I'm interested in how I, as a director, react to what's happening. I'm looking for, trying to figure out what might be interesting to the viewer, where we will connect with him.
After all, a theater does not exist without an audience, without success. Theater is an art that cannot be put in a drawer, like a novel, a novella, a poem, and which cannot be put away in the storeroom of a museum or an artist's studio, like a painting that will suddenly be discovered several decades later and recognized: "My God! It's grandiose, brilliant, and relevant." That's not how it works for us. The theater either happened here and now, or it didn't happen.
That's why I'm watching. And I don't want to act as an executioner who says, "It's over," or an optimistic idiot who says, "Something interesting is about to happen." God knows. We'll see.
— Do you feel the changes in yourself as an artist too?
— I understand that the audience is still interested in stories, but they are tired of the darkness. This does not mean that he is tired of dramatic or tragic things. It's just that inside them, he doesn't want to savor a dead end, but some kind of breathing. Here, by the way, as in the play "And the dawns here are quiet ..." — a tragic story, but it has an incredible air and a desire to live. It seems to me that this energy is very important to the audience today. But I'm afraid to say or formulate something. Sometimes it's better to be silent than to talk. Sometimes it is better to observe, do, try with your hands practically, check, rather than theorize.
"I rarely go to the theater at all"
— The theater season is ending now. What results can you summarize?: What struck you and made you think?
— It was with great pleasure that I watched the "Inspector General" by Valery Vladimirovich Fokin in Alexandrinka. It's a difficult job, both in terms of production and acting, which made a very good impression on me.
Perhaps another "Ordinary Death" on the Small Stage of the Theater of Nations is also by Valery Vladimirovich Fokin with Zhenya Mironov in the title role. It's a very difficult job to take in, but it leaves you feeling like a real theater, a real art, a real quest. You know, without faking it. Without trying to flirt with the audience, fawn over them and please them. This is also infrequent now.
But I rarely go to the theater at all (smiles). There is a lot of work, on the one hand. On the other hand, these are all colleagues, colleagues, colleagues. I'm not very good at hiding my emotions. Therefore, sometimes I prefer not to come somewhere than to come and then leave with a lean face or lie. That's why I go when I understand exactly: There's going to be something really interesting.
— If they return to the Melnikov stage at Stromynka, you are in charge of this space for the second season. What has already been achieved, and what are the plans for the coming years?
— It hardly makes sense to talk about gigantic plans. There is a material side to the matter — the neat cosmetic transformations that take place in the building itself. This is a new way of arranging and improving spaces. For example, we have made the lobby more convenient for the audience. Let's do the dressing rooms now. On the stage, technological improvements are taking place gradually — step by step.
In terms of repertoire, we're trying out young directors and new young energies. Some performances work out, some don't — it's a completely natural process. Theater, like any other art, cannot produce masterpieces with constant regularity: one masterpiece, two masterpieces are a repertoire. Therefore, we took a very simple idea: we are working, we are not in a hurry. The space there is interesting. And there are plans for the next season.
— At the end of May, the play "The New Optimistic" moved from the Chekhov Moscow Art Theater to the Theater on Bronnaya. Are the viewers still waiting for the revival and relocation?
— I would love to take all my performances to my theater, but I do not think that the Theater of Nations will give away "For every wise man." And "Central Park West", "Husbands and Wives", and "Three Sisters" continue to successfully go to the Moscow Art Theater.
— There was also the "Perfect Husband."
— "The Perfect Husband" has been out of print for several years. Well, of course, it is possible to restore all the performances that I have only staged on different stages. And, I assure you, they will collect very well. But what's the point? Fortunately, there are still forces to stage new performances.
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