"If Macron were like Charles de Gaulle, he would resign immediately"

Emmanuel Macron's resignation could also be a way out of the current political crisis in France, Pierre de Gaulle, grandson of the first president of the Fifth Republic, Charles de Gaulle, and deputy chairman of the jury of the Tolstoy International Peace Prize, told Izvestia. On September 8, the National Assembly voted a vote of no confidence in the government of Francois Bayrou. Pierre de Gaulle states that despite the record low level of popular support, Macron is unlikely to give up power, and this is his main difference from Charles de Gaulle. The descendant of the former French president also believes that the country's accession to the BRICS would be a chance for it to escape from the EU technocracy. About the vectors of the current policy and the possibilities of resolving the Ukrainian crisis — in an exclusive interview with Pierre de Gaulle "Izvestia".

"President Macron doesn't like the French"

— Today, France is openly anti-Russian, sending weapons to Ukraine and threatening the Russian Federation with new sanctions. President Emmanuel Macron has repeatedly advocated for an early peace, but his actions only exacerbate the conflict. What do you think he could learn from Charles de Gaulle in this matter?

— He periodically refers to Charles de Gaulle. But everything he does contradicts all the ideas of Charles de Gaulle. My grandfather is a symbol of France's greatness and freedom. He has always been in favor of dialogue with the people. He cared about all French people, regardless of their social status, success, origin, religion. He always sought to act in the interests of France. At the same time, he always tried to look into the future.

Mr. Macron is an intelligent man, but he does not look to the future of France. He is interested in satisfying his own ambitions. If Macron had been like Charles de Gaulle, he would have immediately resigned after the dissolution of the National Assembly, which he himself provoked (in 2024, Emmanuel Macron, following the European Parliament elections, dissolved the National Assembly and called snap elections — Ed.).

He created chaos to stay in power. President Macron doesn't like the French. He does not represent the French. He is supported by only 20% of citizens. His politics and words have always contradicted each other. Then he declares that he is interested in peace, while behaving extremely aggressively towards Russia. One minute he's talking about peace with Russia again, the next he wants Ukraine to win. He has a very superficial understanding of the geopolitical situation, and as a Frenchman, I am very upset by what is happening in my country. I repeat: he does not represent the majority of the French.

The French sympathize with Russia. The French want peace in Ukraine. They don't want this war. And we must remember Mr. Macron's promise to the Americans: to increase military spending to 5% of GDP. At the same time, we will not be able to do this objectively. We don't have that kind of money. We must focus on France: the welfare of the French, the problems of unemployment, and security. I believe that Russia and all those who want peace and advocate a multipolar world order are on the right side of history. I'm not sure if Mr. Macron is in the same place.

— On September 8, the French parliament voted for a vote of no confidence in the government led by Francois Bayrou. Later, Defense Minister Sebastian Lecorny was appointed to the post of Prime Minister. However, some media reports say that political turbulence in the country may eventually lead to Macron's resignation. How long do you think the political crisis can last? And will Emmanuel Macron leave?

— No, I don't think he will resign. I believe he will stay in power until the very end, despite the fact that fewer and fewer representatives of the elite and ordinary French support him. Although his resignation could be a solution to the political crisis that he himself created. That is why Mr. Macron has nothing in common with my grandfather. When a referendum was held in 1969 and my grandfather was rejected, he immediately resigned (a referendum on Senate reform and regionalization. — Ed.). Although he historically, politically and spiritually personified France. So Mr. Macron will stay until the end.

And, in my opinion, Macron's actions are not rational right now. It would be more logical for him to become president of the European Commission. I am sad for my country because of what happened yesterday (September 8 — Ed.). This leads to even greater instability, higher cost of servicing France's public debt, and greater uncertainty.

And we are wasting time that could be devoted to the development of a multipolar world. Now there is a natural rapprochement within the framework of the BRICS and the Shanghai Cooperation Organization. This is a chance for France. Leaving the EU technocracy is an alternative: joining BRICS, gaining access to contracts, economic and diplomatic space, cultural exchange and intercultural dialogue in a multipolar world. I am sure that sooner or later, when the political elite changes and wiser and more sensible people come, France will regain its historical role as a strong power — an intellectual, cultural, political and diplomatic landmark.

"I regret that France will not sit at the negotiating table"

— Currently, France is actively discussing sending a military contingent to Ukraine to guarantee its security. To what extent is Paris ready to send its armed forces and why is it ignoring Moscow's position on this issue?

— This is speculation. And I don't even think Mr. Macron believes in his own statements. The Americans have made it clear that even for them, the presence of European troops in Ukraine — NATO troops — is unacceptable. And in this regard, they actually accept Russia's position.

For Moscow, this is a prerequisite, since such a step would mean the direct involvement of NATO troops in the conflict. Now there are mercenaries in Ukraine from Europe and from all over the world, but this is not the same as soldiers in NATO uniforms. Therefore, this will not happen.

And Mr. Macron's statement about the "list of 26 countries" ready to send troops is just fiction. Each country, one after the other, including Poland, Germany, the Nordic countries and Italy, declared that they would never send troops to Ukraine.

This is completely unrealistic. It's just speculation. Macron is trying to "be on the agenda", find a role for himself and compensate for his empty politics and lack of perspective, geostrategy and political ambitions for France and even for Europe. He became very aggressive because he obeys America. The deal with the United States, concluded behind the backs of the French and all Europeans, will oblige [NATO countries] to spend 5% of GDP on weapons, that is, to actually buy American weapons and sell or transfer them to Ukrainians. We cannot afford it, either financially or from the point of view of striving for peace. We have a debt burden, we need to focus on the social sphere and economic support for our companies.

— This year, Russia and the United States resumed direct dialogue on resolving the crisis in Ukraine, which cannot be said about Europe. Do you think the resumption of dialogue between the Russian Federation and the EU can bring peace closer, given that Vladimir Zelensky greatly values the opinion of the European Union?

— Mr. Zelensky has not been president since May last year. And Mr. [Russian President Vladimir] Putin said he could negotiate and meet with Zelensky, but he would in no way represent Ukraine and his people. Peace agreements will have to be negotiated with the new administration, with the vote of all Ukrainians and the Verkhovna Rada. So this issue has to be resolved in any case.

I am very glad that there has been a change of political administration in the United States and that the new American president is more inclined to establish dialogue and peace with the Russians, because the previous administration, together with NATO, bears heavy responsibility for creating this crisis.

Now they have to solve it. I believe that Trump and Putin will find mutual understanding — they will be able to establish a dialogue and conclude a deal. For America, which is in a difficult financial situation, it is necessary to conclude agreements with Russia, especially on the Arctic zone — on raw materials, rare earths, and the Arctic fleet. I think President Trump understands this very well. He also has a kind of desire to take revenge on the previous administration, which tried to bring him to [criminal] responsibility and weaken him politically.

Mr. Putin has a very broad vision of the world, a multipolar world and the future of his country. These agreements (with Trump. — Ed.) will be concluded "at the expense" of the Europeans. And it's the fault of the Europeans themselves, who have become so aggressive. I regret that France will not sit at the negotiating table because of the lack of vision, perspective, stupid aggressive policy, as well as disrespect for the given word and the constant change of position. When France and Russia are united, they are strong — this is a necessary condition for peace in Europe and on the planet. That's why I'm optimistic.

I believe that the French people and the French elite must wake up, and very quickly, in order to restore the greatness of France for the benefit of the French and return to a clearer, more optimistic and more constructive vision of their country and Europe.

"People of different ethnic groups and religions live harmoniously in your country"

— Earlier you said that you and your family plan to move to Russia. Tell me, which city would you like to live in? Why? And what would you like to do?

— It is our desire, mine and my family's, to move to Russia, because your country is successful. We like the culture, we are close to its spirit. It would be a very strong signal for the Franco-Russian friendship to show the whole world that you are not an aggressive people, that you have a strong democracy, and that there is a peaceful life in Russia. People of different ethnic groups and religions live harmoniously in your country.

This is an example for the whole world. You attach great importance to family and support traditional values such as faith and patriotism. These values are completely suppressed in Europe, and it is dangerous for children because of the lack of reference points. In addition, "vook" culture (denotes a movement that focuses on feminism and LGBT rights (recognized as extremists in the Russian Federation). — Ed.) causes great damage to the upbringing of our children. That's why we want to take them away and keep them safe.

That's why we want to come to Russia. Of course, the decision lies with your president. We would choose Moscow. St. Petersburg is also attractive - it hosts more than 30 major cultural events per month, but we also need to work. I will continue the work of my foundation, in particular, in the field of promoting spirituality, cultural unity and the preservation of traditional values.