"We are optimistic about the realization of the nuclear power project"

Indonesia is interested in military exercises with Russia, Russian ambassador to the country Sergey Tolchenov told Izvestia. According to the diplomat, Jakarta is likely to join the Zapad-2025 exercises with Russia and Belarus, either with the participation of units or as observers. Russia and Indonesia are also developing cooperation in the field of peaceful atom. The construction of a nuclear power plant in the country is on the horizon. After the establishment of a specialized agency there, the Russian side will be able to start direct negotiations. Military-technical cooperation, agreement with the EAEU and simplification of visa formalities - in an exclusive interview with Sergei Tolchenov "Izvestia".

"It will be cheaper, better and safer with us"

- In 2023, the trade turnover between Russia and Indonesia amounted to about $4 billion. Are there any figures for 2024? Are there plans to expand exports?

- There are no final figures, but they are likely to appear by the end of February. Judging by the dynamics of the past months, we assume that they will be about the same, maybe a little more.

We would like to increase the volume of supplies of our traditional goods, such as hydrocarbons and refined products, agricultural products, primarily grain. But we would like to pay more attention to high-tech goods, equipment produced in Russia, with the prospect of implementing in the foreseeable future large projects for which such equipment can be supplied here. Taking into account the industrial development of the country, especially its demand for electricity, and the simultaneous commitment to reduce emissions and decommission coal-fired power plants, we are very optimistic about the realization of a nuclear power project in Indonesia.

- Could there be talk of building a nuclear power plant in the future?

- Yes, of course. Preliminary preparatory work is underway. The Indonesian side has already taken certain steps, because just 5-10 years ago nuclear issues were taboo here. But the situation is changing, and the nuclear topic is beginning to appear in government planning documents, in particular, in medium-term plans for the development of the electric power industry. And the last major step remains - the creation of a separate organization to oversee nuclear energy issues. For this to happen, a presidential decree must be adopted. After that, we will be able to start direct contacts and negotiations with this body on any aspects of cooperation in the peaceful use of nuclear energy.

- So Indonesia is interested in building a nuclear power plant with Russian participation?

- Russian participation is one of the options. Of course, they have appeals from various parties, but we explain, and I have repeatedly emphasized this when speaking to my colleagues, that it will be cheaper, better, and safer with us. And most importantly, we offer sovereign technologies that we have and are ready to share. And we offer not some plans on paper, but something that is already really functioning not only in our country, but also in a number of other countries: China, India, Bangladesh, Egypt, and Turkey.

- Is Indonesia planning - or perhaps has already proposed - new categories of goods to be supplied to Russia?

- We are complementary here. Of course, they offer mainly tropical agricultural products. But it is quite possible to talk about other areas of cooperation - mechanical engineering, products for processing natural resources. The spectrum is quite wide. But we would not want to create a fuss so far in order not to cause negative reactions from our opponents, who are closely monitoring what we are doing here and trying to prevent it. Everything is still at the negotiation stage, and work is underway.

- You recently said that Russia and Indonesia are discussing the possibility of using national currencies in mutual settlements. What categories of goods are planned to be paid for by this method?

- If such a decision is taken, then virtually any goods. Then any money transfers, payments for any contracts and deliveries can be made in national currencies. So far we are just starting negotiations. The process is quite complicated, but both sides are interested, because the problem with mutual settlements is the bottleneck that prevents us from seriously increasing trade turnover. The same applies to major projects, including investment projects.

- Should we expect the transition to mutual settlements in national currencies in 2025? Has Indonesia connected to the domestic analog of SWIFT - the Financial Messaging System (FMS) from the Central Bank?

- I would like to be optimistic, but this is too short a timeframe. In addition to national currencies, we can also talk about using currencies of third countries, as we sometimes call them, friendly ones. This could also establish channels for transferring such funds not through the West and would already be a big step.

The SPFS topic is also on the table here - such a proposal has been made. But it is still being considered by the Indonesian side, and none of the local banks has yet joined the SPFS.

"Moscow and our other million-strong cities could share their experience"

- Last year, Indonesia opened to the public the city of Nusantara, which will become the political capital of the country in 2028. It is known that Russian investor companies, among others, are involved in the development of Nusantara. What infrastructure projects are we talking about?

- Last September it was announced that Russian investors were among the first to invest in the construction of real estate in Nusantara, but we are talking about Indonesian legal entities. Some of their participants are Russian citizens permanently residing here. That is, the capital may be Russian, but the legal entities themselves are Indonesian. However, the Russian side, for example, Moscow and our other major million-strong cities, could share experience in the development of urban and transportation infrastructure, smart cities, e-government, and offer technological solutions to the problems faced by any large cities. According to the plan, the population of Nusantara could reach 2-4 million people.

- Trade and economic cooperation is also developing through multilateral organizations. For almost two years, Indonesia and the EAEU have been negotiating a free trade zone agreement. Should we expect it in 2025?

- Here I am very optimistic. I believe that it is quite realistic to achieve, if not the signing, then at least the finalization of the text of the agreement. The final round of negotiations took place in July 2024, and the parties have continued to finalize the remaining issues online all this time. They are small in volume, but the most important ones are tariffs, which we are bringing to zero import taxes. Both the Indonesian side and the EAEU member countries are very interested in this.

We hope that we will be able to finalize the text in the coming months, but after that each country will need time to harmonize it at the domestic level. Not so long ago, it was announced here in Indonesia that the President instructed the relevant local agencies to finalize the draft of this agreement in the first quarter. Consider that there are exactly two months left. Let's hope it happens.

"The Indonesian side is interested in military-technical cooperation with Russia"

- Russia and Indonesia cooperate not only in the trade and economic sphere, but also, for example, in the military-technical sphere. You mentioned earlier that the contract for the supply of Su-35 fighters to Indonesia has not been canceled and is still in force despite the statements of officials. Are new contracts with the Russian side being discussed now?

- The contract has been, let's say, frozen. Just last week I was in contact with Indonesian partners and they confirmed that it remains on the table, but final negotiations on it have not been held due to various circumstances. At the same time, during the meeting between the current Indonesian President Prabowo Subianto, while he was still the Defense Minister and President-elect, and Russian President Vladimir Putin in Moscow in July, the topic of military-technical cooperation was touched upon, it was emphasized that this is a normal component of our interstate ties and there is interest in continuing cooperation on both sides. We know that Indonesian agencies are also focused on this, and negotiations at various levels are continuing. The Indonesian side is interested in military-technical cooperation with Russia. This is the most important thing.

- There was information that Indonesia may join the West-2025 exercises with Russia and Belarus. Will Indonesia take part?

- Yes, such a proposal has been submitted. It is now being considered by the Indonesian side. Most likely, there will be participation. Whether units or only observers will participate will probably be decided in the near future. There is interest in the exercises, and this was confirmed by the Indonesian Defense Minister.

"We were allies during the war"

- At the end of last year, it was reported that Prabowo Subianto received an invitation to attend the Victory Parade in Moscow on May 9 on the occasion of the 80th anniversary of the victory in the Great Patriotic War. Has the President accepted the invitation? If so, are bilateral talks with Vladimir Putin planned?

- We have not yet received an official response from the Indonesian side. But I am sure that in one format or another Indonesia will be represented at the Victory Parade at a fairly high level. The Indonesian side confirms that we were allies during the war. This is a really big event, and they would like to celebrate this date together with us. As for the meeting, whatever major event the current president comes to us for, there will be mandatory talks with Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin.

- Prabowo Subianto, while still head of the Indonesian Defense Ministry, in June 2023 proposed a concrete peace plan to resolve the situation in Ukraine. Now that Prabowo Subianto has officially assumed the presidency, has Jakarta signaled its readiness to mediate the Ukrainian conflict?

- The plan, announced in 2023 and mentioned again in June 2024 at the Shangri-La Dialogue conference in Singapore, has not been voiced again. We assume that Indonesia is interested in providing some assistance in resolving this crisis, but now, I think, is more inclined to multilateral efforts. And Indonesia's participation in the Sino-Brazilian Friends of Peace initiative at the level of Foreign Minister is a testament to that. From what I hear from my colleagues in the Indonesian Foreign Ministry, they prefer to work within such a multilateral quasi-structure at this stage.

"We need direct flights to Bali from cities in our eastern regions"

- A less hot topic, but still relevant, remains tourism. Bali is still a popular destination among Russians. Last year Aeroflot finally launched direct flights from Moscow. Is there now a dialog about increasing the number of flights?

- I told both my Indonesian colleagues and the leadership of Bali province that if they want to further increase the number of Russian tourists, then, of course, the flow should not only go through Moscow. Since our compatriots from Siberia and the Far East, which are geographically much closer to Indonesia than Moscow, have to make a detour and fly through our capital. And there is a need, apparently, for direct flights from cities in our eastern regions. If such requests are received, the embassy will assist in working them out.

- Are there any discussions on increasing the period of visa-free stay in Indonesia for Russian citizens?

- Visa-free stay here for Russian citizens is a voluntary step of the Indonesian side, which provides an opportunity to obtain a visa for 30 days. Accordingly, only it can proactively increase this period. If we are talking about visa-free entry in general, this can only be done on the basis of a bilateral intergovernmental agreement. Such an initiative could be considered.

So far we have an intergovernmental agreement on simplification of visa processing for citizens of both countries in the works. We hope that it will be signed this year. Now we need to collect a fairly large set of documents. You need original invitations. With the simplification, there will be no such set. It will be possible to apply for visas without having an invitation from some companies, but, say, on the same basis on which tourist visas are made, for example, hotel reservations.

- Last year, Indonesian authorities promised to allow payment of tourist fees with a Russian Mir card. But this option is still not available. Will it appear in 2025?

- You can't make it so that the Mir card can only be used to pay visa fees here on arrival. If the Mir card is allowed, then naturally it could be used for any tourist purpose. This is payment in hotels, restaurants and stores. We have made a proposal for the card here, but so far there has been no positive reaction from local banks. Apparently, they are still afraid of secondary sanctions from the US and other Western countries.

- What are the peculiarities of working as a diplomat in a Southeast Asian country like Indonesia? Perhaps there are some other factors that determine the specificity of Indonesia in this context?

- Probably, as always, there are specifics with different signs. On the plus side, as in many Southeast Asian countries, foreigners in general and Russians in particular are treated very kindly here. That is, when you say that you are from Russia, that you are the Russian ambassador in my case, no one turns away and goes to the other side of the street, as they call it. On the contrary, there are always friendly smiles, mentions of our president, very warm words about our country, and even shouts of "hurrah" sometimes, which cannot but please. Such a good-hearted, sincere attitude.

But, of course, as in other Asian countries, there are disadvantages. This, perhaps, may be due to the tropical warm climate. Here there is sometimes a leisurely attitude to life, to processes, to negotiations, to discussing some issues. Accordingly, it takes more time to work through sometimes even the smallest of stories. But you have to put up with this, you have to adjust to working more closely with your partners. You have to be able to persuade them, sometimes rush them, in order to solve some issues and not put them off for a long time.