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"I am interested in a person not when everything is safe, but when he is flying into the abyss"
Modern digital technologies can facilitate filmmaking and optimize the budget, but they will never replace human individuality, says director Alexey Uchitel. The People's Artist of the Russian Federation actively implements innovations at the Rock Studio, combines creativity with teaching at VGIK and directs the Message to Man international Film Festival. On the eve of his 75th birthday, the master spoke in an exclusive interview with Izvestia about why the relatives of famous personalities are always unhappy with biopics, what is the secret of Vanya Dmitrienko's success and who will remove him and Anna Peresild in the continuation of the cult "Walk".
"I would hardly have made a dancer"
— You made your feature film debut with the movie "Giselle Mania". You used to be a documentary filmmaker. Why did you decide to remove a full meter one day? How did this happen?
— Screenwriter Dunya Smirnova and I were working on a documentary about the legendary ballerina Olga Spesivtseva. Back then, Boris Eifman staged the ballet Red Giselle based on her life, and we wanted to combine all this somehow. And then, in the midst of preparation, our heroine dies at the age of 95. I can't make documentaries without a live character in the frame, so Dunya and I went on an adventure and decided to make a game. It was a huge risk for me.: The production scale is completely different and the work with the actors is completely different. But in the end, our first experience was successful.
A shot from the movie "Giselle Mania"
— Boris Eifman's play is still in the repertoire of his theater. Not so long ago, he brought the Red Giselle to Moscow. Are you still interested in ballet?
— Yes, I go to the ballet. Moreover, I had a funny story when I was a kid. I was about nine or ten years old, my mother and I were flying south, and one of the teachers of the Vaganova College was on our plane. I was walking around the salon, and she told my mom: "Your boy should definitely be given to us." But that didn't happen. And thank God! Because I probably wouldn't have made a dancer, and I didn't really want to either.
Nevertheless, in my adult life, I was connected with ballet by two paintings at once — "Giselle Mania" about Spesivtseva and "Matilda". Ballet has a unique visual element, very close to cinema. There are no words, and all the drama, all the deep content must be conveyed solely by body plasticity. It's incredibly interesting to watch how real drama is born from classical movements. That's why ballet is a huge and important part of my life.
— In the late 1980s, your documentary "Rock" actually brought Viktor Tsoi, Oleg Garkusha and other musicians of the Leningrad rock club out of hiding. Did you realize then that you were creating the fate of legends?
— No, the Leningrad rock club existed before that. I don't think I created their fate. Probably, after the release of the film — and it was shown in almost all cinemas, which is rare for documentaries — the musicians became more popular. But they were also very talented in their own right. Rather, they had a great influence on me. There were five main characters in the film, and each had their own, completely unique approach to life.
Singer Victor Tsoi
By the way, I didn't make a movie about their work, but about what kind of people they are in everyday life, in reality. That's probably why the painting aroused such great interest. It's one thing to see musicians on stage and love their songs, but it's quite another to show them what they are like in everyday life. They're not monsters or angels, but it was incredibly exciting to watch them.
This experience has become very important to me. I won't say that I've become freer in my work, but I definitely looked at life a little differently. I realized that there is a state when you just have to say something, even if it is difficult and difficult. They gave me this inner feeling, for which I am very grateful.
"Progress cannot be stopped, but AI is only a technical tool"
— We are meeting on Russian Cinema Day. It is customary to praise on a holiday. To be honest, what do you think our film industry is in?
— Our film industry is large and successful, so it is necessary to rejoice at success. Our main traditional problems are a shortage of strong ideas and a shortage of talented directors. Perhaps that's the only thing to regret. At the same time, our movies — especially family, genre, and fairy tales — have been looking great over the past few years. The audience willingly goes to the cinemas and accepts these paintings very warmly.
Directed by Alexey Uchitel
The difficulty lies elsewhere. Our studio "Rock" is actively engaged in debutants. The government helps young authors in production, but it's hard for them to rent — the distributors are simply not ready to take the risk. But you still need to invest money in promoting such films. It's the same problem with auteur cinema. We need to seriously think about how to popularize it so that the audience generally knows about the existence of these paintings. But otherwise, the progress is obvious, and this is encouraging.
— Now there is a new problem, and artificial intelligence is a godsend for someone. But you are a master of the old school. Why don't you use neural networks in your movies?
— Why don't I use it? I'm just closely following all the new products. The whole question is how exactly to use it. Progress cannot be stopped, and AI helps a lot in technical matters. For example, if we need to show a crowd of 20 thousand people in the frame, we will shoot 500 actors, and finish the rest on the computer.
But AI is just a technical tool. Probably, in advertising or animation, you can completely create a project on a computer. It's difficult to achieve this in a feature film. Many people are afraid that due to their ability to recreate any face, neural networks can replace actors. But I am sure that living talent and human individuality cannot be replicated. The neural network is able to copy the type, but it will not create a live improvisation on the set and will not repeat the miracle that is born during the installation. I fully welcome the fact that it helps to create a creative work, and does not replace it.
"The audience will see a completely new Kologrivy"
— "The Noise of Time", a film about Shostakovich, will be released in the fall. Why was theater artist Oleg Savtsov, who is little known in cinema, invited to play the main role?
— I really love the theater. When young actors come to me for auditions, the first thing I ask is: "Do you work in the theater?" If not, I lose interest in many ways. I definitely have to see any new artist on stage first. At the Theater of Nations, I watched almost all of Oleg's works, among them "Cabaret", "Tales of Pushkin", "The Last Summer".
The performer of the main role of composer Dmitry Shostakovich, actor Oleg Savtsov during the filming of the film "The Noise of Time"
I tried out many famous actors for the role of Shostakovich. Approving Oleg was a risk, but he literally coincided with the hero. In real life, in his nerves, gentle intelligence, and a certain closeness, he very much resembled Dmitry Dmitrievich himself.
Our movie is not a biopic, but a parable about a genius in whose life there was an amazing paradox: the more difficult the circumstances were, the better and better he wrote music.
Actors during the filming of the film "The Noise of Time"
Oleg lived with this project for a year and a half and admitted that he immersed himself in the role so deeply that he had no idea how to live on after filming.
For me, he is one of the most interesting young actors in recent years. He played Shostakovich both in his youth and at the age of 60. I doubted whether plastic makeup and body plastering would be able to convey age, but Oleg did a brilliant job.
— In general, you managed to assemble an amazing cast in your film.
— Evgeny Tsyganov plays Sergei Prokofiev, this is our fourth collaboration. Danila Kozlovsky played the small but significant role of Marshal Tukhachevsky. Nikita Kologrivy, who played the fictional composer Tikhonov, became a discovery for me. Initially, I still had my doubts, but when I saw that he even tried his best, just playing along with others, all questions disappeared. The audience will see a completely new Kologrivy.
Lev Zulkarnaev also starred in the vivid role of a musicologist and a close friend of Shostakovich. There was also a wonderful female ensemble: Masha Smolnikova, Dasha Balabanova and Polina Tsyganova, Zhenya's eldest daughter. Polina is only 20 years old, and for me it is a rare case of working with a person without a specialized education. The role is difficult, we had a long lapping process, but in the end Polina did a brilliant job.
— Many of your films tell about real historical characters. How much does the biography of the hero dominate the director?
— Responsibility, of course, must be in the subcortex. But I never make classic biopic films. My films about real people are not a dry biography, but our artistic image. That is why relatives are often unhappy, and it is very difficult to adjust to their everyday perception.
If I thought every shooting day that I was shooting about a great man, I wouldn't have created anything good. All historical figures were primarily human beings with their own passions, strengths, and weaknesses. In the process of working, you forget about the status of a Nobel Laureate, like Bunin, for example, and you just see a person with his own problems. I'm interested in a person not when he's doing well, but when he's falling into the abyss. The very moment of flight, when the past life has already ended, and the new one has not yet begun. This is the most fascinating process for cinema.
"In the cinema, we don't have the right to make mistakes or to make a four"
— For your anniversary, the film "Space as a premonition" is being re-released. How do you feel about the archived release? Can a painting earn money?
— Successful films are being released for re-distribution. This is a great test for cinema. Films about the anger of the day pass quickly, they are forgotten about, but a good, talented movie should live a long time. A repeat rental is required. It won't raise a grandiose box office, it's a chamber story, but it's very interesting. For example, during the pandemic, we showed "Space as a premonition" in a huge hall with a seating limit of 50%. The organizers committed violations, tickets were sold out beyond the norm, and the hall was absolutely full. We arrived there with Irina Pegova and Elena Lyadova, and after the show we talked with the audience for another hour. Moreover, the questions were mostly asked by those who had seen the painting for the first time in their lives. This means that after 20 years, interest in it remains. And it's a great joy for me.
A shot from the movie "Space as a premonition"
Life is a constant work process. Because of this, there is almost no free time, and that's the trouble. I spend too much time in the studio at VGIK — I have 25 people there who turn in 25 films every six months.
Plus, for 17 years I have been the president of the large international festival "Message to Man", which focuses on documentary films and takes place in St. Petersburg every autumn. This year, we received applications from 97 countries around the world. It was a pleasant surprise for us.
— How do you manage to maintain your international status?
— There are difficulties, of course. Some authors refuse to participate, some do not come. This year we will have our 36th festival, we are well known in the world, and our personal connections help, so we firmly maintain our international status. We show about 200 films every year. And surprisingly, a lot of young people come to the shows.
— And how does the director Teacher get along with the producer Teacher and his economic streak?
— A producer is not just an economist. The budget at the studio is handled by special people who protect me from financial issues. But if overwork occurs, I am warned about the risks. Cinema is a very expensive production, and the director must think about how to shoot the scene economically.
Alexey Uchitel
I have a favorite phrase: "How does cinema differ from theater?" In the theater, after the premiere, the performance can be finalized as much as you like. In the cinema, every shooting day we have to shoot a scene as perfectly as possible — there is no other way out. It is impossible to retake due to the huge cost and acting schedules. We don't have the right to make mistakes or to shoot for a "four". I'm a maximalist: I always need an A-plus for the allotted 12 hours of shift.
— You are a professor at the Department of Non-fiction films at VGIK. Why documentaries?
— I've spent half my life making documentaries and I love it very much. My transition into feature films happened spontaneously, but I became seriously ill with this genre and even regretted that I had not come to it sooner.
Our workshop at VGIK is an experimental one. Every six months, students submit two films: one documentary and one feature film. It is only in the fifth year that we determine the topic of the diploma.
I think this approach is the only correct one. A director must be able to capture real life, but he must also be able to work with actors. This year we have a breakthrough: for the first time in the history of VGIK, our graduates have received diplomas with universal qualifications — "director of feature and non-fiction films." I think other workshops will adopt this practice over time.
— That is, universal directors.
- yes. A talented director should be able to work in both documentaries and feature films, as well as make TV series. There are special features of working with heroes everywhere, so it's important to have all the tools. This is my principled position.
Alexey Uchitel
— They say you are a very strict teacher and can be expelled. Why are you breaking up with students?
— It's hard to see talent in the entrance exams, because the guys come to us right after school. I rarely drop out. It only happens when I see that a person just doesn't need to direct. Why waste his time and the efforts of the masters if nothing works out?
I advise some of yesterday's students to go on academic leave after their first or second year, just to live and see the world. And we have great examples where it has been beneficial. One of my students returned after such a break, shot wonderful works and won the festivals "Saint Anna" and "Shorter".
"From my point of view, Anya is filming too much right now."
— Why didn't your daughter Anya Peresild go to study at your VGIK?
— She wants to be an actress, and I teach a directing course at VGIK. From my point of view, she's filming too much right now. But since she has firmly decided to get an acting education, her choice is absolutely logical.
Anna Peresild
— How did you react to the uproar surrounding her admission to a commercial university, allegedly out of competition?
— This, of course, is not true. The choice of university is related to the specifics of education. At GITIS and the Moscow Art Theater Studio School, where she wanted to enroll, students were strictly forbidden to act in films for three years. I respect this position. But Anya has a slightly different life now, which developed even before admission, so it was necessary to vary it somehow. And in this sense, she was lucky: Daria Moroz, an actress, director, and producer, was just recruiting her first workshop at the Moscow Film School. She will give her best and give the students maximum results. As for the commercial university, yes, there is such a problem, but we will solve it.
— You recently went to the Luzhniki Stadium to see a concert by Vanya Dmitrienko, where Anya sang a duet with him. What thoughts do Father have at such a moment?
— He and Vanya communicate a lot and even won a music award for the best duet song from the movie "Alice in Wonderland". She only sang it at the stadium, and the concert itself was Vanya's personal show. I was amazed that 70,000 viewers sang along to absolutely all of his songs. Vanya has a powerful energy, he writes music himself, collects stadiums, and he is only 20 years old. God forbid that early fame does not turn their heads, because Anya's whole career is still ahead. It's also very interesting for me to watch Vanya, he's a talented guy.
Vanya Dmitrienko and Anna Peresild
— They say you want to make a sequel to "The Walk" starring Vanya and Anya. Is that true?
— This option is possible, but it will not be me who will shoot, but my son Ilya. I've been asked more than once to make a sequel, and now we're working on a scenario for such a walk around Moscow. The desire to see Anya and Vanya there is great, but let's wait for the final version of the script.
A shot from the movie "The Walk"
— Have you thought about what kind of mark you will leave in the history of cinema?
— I sincerely don't think about it. It probably makes sense to talk about this after the work is done. I was lucky enough to make several films that continue to live on today. But I'm still in good working shape, so let's see how the audience accepts the new picture.
Переведено сервисом «Яндекс Переводчик»
