"The fate of GITIS worries me endlessly"
Mikhail Shvydkoi, special representative of the President of the Russian Federation for International Cultural Cooperation and artistic director of the Musical Theater, is convinced that a young man "who would not be afraid of anything" should become the new rector of the Russian Institute of Theatrical Arts (GITIS). He graduated from GITIS himself and has been teaching there for more than 50 years. Mikhail Shvydkoi spoke in an exclusive interview with Izvestia about the true problems of modern creative youth, the hype around AI, which he jokingly calls "Ivan Ivanovich", and the premiere of the musical "Crybaby", created jointly with Sergei Zhukov and NMG.
"Zhukov definitely didn't come to us for extra fame"
— On September 10, the big premiere of the play "The Crybaby" will take place on the stage of the Musical Theater. You called it an experiment for the theater. What exactly is it?
— For us, "Crybaby" is really a new phenomenon. We have never worked with partners, we did everything ourselves. And now we are co-producing this musical together with NMG and CTC. We have never risked doing a youth performance and did not enter the segment of popular music. For us, working with Sergey Zhukov is something completely new. We haven't worked with people who are at the forefront of today's stadium popularity. And Zhukov is a man who, 30 years after starting his career, has been assembling stadiums for the third year in a row.
But the concert contact of the performer with the audience at the stadium and the artist's contact with the hall with one and a half thousand seats are different stories. A musical is not a set of songs to which the plot is adapted, as, for example, in "Mamma Mia!". When we started working with Zhukov, I was really afraid that he would insist that we put on a set of songs. But he is a very serious and, from my point of view, a deep person who understands perfectly well what he is doing.
Sergey Zhukov
He came to us with this offer in order to try himself in a new capacity. We are also trying ourselves in a new capacity by working with this kind of composer. Zhukov definitely didn't come to us for extra fame—he doesn't need it. And in order to feel your possibilities, you need to work in a different musical direction.
We are trying to work with such a super-popular performer and composer, who has developed his own style and has his own audience. And in this way we wanted to attract those young people who are not the main audience of our theater.
— And how do you like the intermediate result?
— I'm coming to rehearsals now and watching. There are 30 young people between the ages of 20 and 23 on the stage. It's a completely different energy. Sometimes I want to tell them, "Guys, it doesn't matter what you do, just go back and forth." They have a different blood flow. But, of course, we don't want to lose our audience. Therefore, based on the plot of "Crybaby", they added roles for the parents of the characters, for grandparents, so there are several duets, romances, rock compositions from the last century.
— Sergey Zhukov is now very vigorously storming the theater stage. Last season, he released the musical "You're the only One with me" at the Provincial Theater, where his son Angel played. And here, as in the original series, Nick's daughter will be released.
— We are very pleased that Nika, as the heroine of the series, will work in this play. Although this is also a serious test for her. After all, filming in the cinema and working on the theater stage are completely different professions. It's much harder on stage. In general, a musical is a very complex art form.
Nika Zhukova and the director of the musical Valery Markin
Naturally, Nika Zhukova will play the premiere. And in parallel, we have two more young actresses — Margarita Belova and Kristina Kukas. We always try to have at least two performers for any main role. And here, I think we need three, because we assume a long rental.
— Speaking of the plot, is this an alternative story or a continuation of the series?
— Pretty much a continuation. I really didn't want it to be a musical about bullying. It's a story about love and growing up. Hemingway wrote that those who do not understand that love is a tragedy have never loved. And we want to tell you about it. "Crybaby" is not an empty, lightweight "youth comedy." He touches on very complex topics of human growing up, which are important at 18, 30 and 70 years old.
"It's bad when education turns into a business"
— Today, there is a lot of talk about the younger generation — buzzers, alphas. How would you rate the guys in creative professions?
— I stick to the phrase that Heinrich Ibsen once said: "Youth is always right." The world they enter, we have organized for them. These young guys are our future.
I have been teaching for many years. I get angry when I enter the classroom and the students are sitting at their computers and checking what I'm saying. And instead of saying, "Pushkin was born in 1799," I say, "It seems to me that Pushkin was born in 1799," because I know they will immediately look at the computer — is it true or not?
Today's world has changed a lot. We stopped communicating. It is necessary to provoke young people to communicate outside of gadgets. It seems to us that we understand more about life than our predecessors. In fact, we don't understand a damn thing, because the amount of information is so large.
When I communicate with young guys, they are just as active, just as critical of the older generations — and this is normal. They also want to understand the world and succeed. It just seems to me that we need to talk to them more today. Young people are neither worse nor better than us. Don't pretend that they are much better. Well, definitely not worse. That's what I guarantee.
— Now many people blame the level of training of young artists. Do you agree with this?
— Since 2012, at the Shchukin College, for the third time, we have completed a course for musical theater artists, which was led by our art director, my wife Marina Shvydkaya. We specially prepared them for the Moscow Musical Theater. Now we have taken in 15 young guys. And I can't say that they don't have a profession. They came in fairly well-worn. And there are very strong guys in other universities.
Another question is that there are a lot of establishments where artists are trained. It's bad when education turns into a business. But that's the way the world works today: everyone wants paid students. And paying students are not always the most talented.
— And where to employ them then? About 400 artists graduate every year.
— More. The question is different: modern artists are not given difficult tasks. Sometimes my wife, who has been involved in pedagogy for many years, looks at the TV series screen and sees her students there. And she says, "Why did I teach them?" Because a person grows up only on very difficult tasks.
— Is there no decent material?
— Including. Plus, today, art begins with marketing. This creates a number of problems. Business tasks, not artistic ones, are being solved.
"We need to look for a rector between the ages of 35 and 50"
— GITIS is not a strange place for you. How did you react to the resignation of Grigory Zaslavsky?
— The fate of GITIS worries me endlessly. I came to GITIS to study in 1966, that is, 60 years ago, and started teaching there in 1972. And, of course, I am very worried about the fate of the institute.
I don't want to go into the details of recent publications. But during these ten years, Grigory Anatolyevich Zaslavsky has certainly done a lot. He is a bright and talented person. But, apparently, there is something that I do not know, because of which he himself wrote a letter of resignation.
Grigory Zaslavsky
It is very important now that GITIS does not lose the momentum of development that it has gained over the years. And it is very important that the rector be a reasonable person who understands that GITIS is a very complex organism. This is a multi-component and very complex structure where actors, directors, musical theater actors, choreographers, people who are engaged in pop, sound engineers, and so on are trained. I repeat, I am very concerned about the fate of the institute.
— Are there people in the personnel reserve who could lead this machine?
— I don't know. In my opinion, there are three, four, or five people from whom you can choose. We need to look for a rector between the ages of 35 and 50. And don't be afraid to give young people responsible tasks. Experience is not always a good baggage. He limits courage. Experienced people, as a rule, are rarely brave. They're not even always wise. Wisdom and experience are two different things. We need to look for some young man who would not be afraid of anything. Even if they take him to bayonets in GITIS.
— This raises another topic. Is it possible to talk about a shortage of personnel in the theater industry, given that the main stages of the country are run by a limited circle of people?
— You have to understand that artists are egocentric. When Yuri Petrovich Lyubimov came to Taganka, Pyotr Naumovich Fomenko was working there. And he put on a very successful performance. Yuri Petrovich realized that it was necessary to get rid of him. In this sense, theaters are no different from the Egyptian kingdoms. The Pharaoh died — the ruler, his wives, all those close to him, and so on were buried in the pyramid. It's not always fair to think about continuing a business.
Director's theater is related to the director's personality. Therefore, when you talk about the shortage of personnel, you need to create youth platforms. Now, at the Taganka Theater, which is directed by Irina Apeksimova, many young directors are staging a lot of different performances — some more successful, some less. But this kind of platform is a very important phenomenon.
Or what Konstantin Bogomolov is doing in the former Roman Grigorievich Viktyuk Theater — young people are given the opportunity to realize themselves. Because it's hard to work alongside major directors, who, in general, can be counted on the fingers of one hand. You'll always be an apprentice.
Such an interesting phenomenon as Peter Shereshevsky appeared in MTUSe. The Shalom Theater under the direction of Oleg Lipovetsky is becoming interesting. Young directors are appearing there. And with them, aesthetic definiteness arises. Previously, the theater was more ethnic than aesthetic. And even that ethnic background is largely conditional.
In order for great works of art to be born, there must be a lot of bad ones. Oddly enough, this is also a quantitative question. I am a big fan of Soviet cinema. But if you look at the ratio — how much was filmed and how much remained in the story, you will be surprised. If 10% remained in history, that's a good number. The same applies to the theater. Another thing is that theater is a less expensive art, it is not as tightly regulated as cinema.
— So, in order for one artistic director not to have two or three theaters, it is necessary for this growth of talents to germinate?
— They will appear. I will tell you more: it is possible to create under conditions of restrictions, this is not news for Russia. The more difficult the conditions, the more likely the geniuses will survive. Like Newton's law, every action is equal to a reaction.
"Everything related to AI is a big hype"
— How do you feel about using AI? Is it necessary to label works if the creator creates them using neural networks?
— When we use a computer, it tells us a lot, changes words, accents. Artificial intelligence is a tool. You can label it, of course. But from my point of view, the reader doesn't care. If the work is fascinating, if this music somehow, as modern youth say, "comes in", then you don't care.
Another thing is that the score will be the same. Imagine: a writer wrote a novel with the help of AI, a critic wrote a critical review with the help of AI. And this is the shit we're going to live in. It is very comfortable.
I didn't have enough time, but I urgently needed to write a column in the newspaper. My friend tells me: "What do you want to write about? Throw everything at me. I'll write to you now." After three minutes, the text appears. I look at it and say, "Look, that's right, but not my style." No problems. He asks the AI to write the same thing in the style of Shvydkoi. And a text is being sent that is very similar to mine.
One problem: artificial intelligence focuses on what has already been written. It's like an education. We work with the famous. Only a person can offer the unknown. Our strength today in relation to "Ivan Ivanovich" lies in irrationality and physiology.
Picasso was once asked: "Do you write with your mind or with your heart?" He replied, and this is my favorite quote of his: "Eggs." A person writes physiologically. Singers don't sing with their throats, they sing with their entire vertical. And in this sense, creativity is what distinguishes us from the machine so far.
The problem will be different. And this is very serious, from my point of view. When people get used to a product made by artificial intelligence, living artists will pretend to be machines. Because it will be a market. The scary thing is not that the car will look like a human. It's scary that a person will try to look like a machine. This is where we face the threat of extinction.
— On the contrary, won't they stand out favorably against the average temperature in the hospital?
— A marketing issue. If machine products turn out to be the most in demand, then in order to get into the trend, a living artist will do what artificial intelligence does.
May my superiors and scientists forgive me. For me, everything related to artificial intelligence is such a big hype. There is an obvious tendency to keep up with fashion.
I get great pleasure from writing down phone numbers or addresses on pieces of paper. It's a pure thrill. Yes, our brain is not able to perceive the information flow that exists today. We can't watch 100,000 movies and TV series that have appeared in the world in a year. In order to be human, you need to read 100 books at all. The main thing is to choose them correctly. Everything else is vanity of vanities.
— Everyone has phones in their hands. And on social media, everyone sells everything — courses, friendships, perfect relationships. And hence a lot of psychological problems.
— The happiest moment of my life is when I turn off all the phones. I have an old Nokia push-button. I never turn it off. Well, because that's the job. That's crazy too, right? Previously, to make an international call, you had to find 20-15 kopecks and a machine that works. And now everyone gets really angry when your phone is turned off. You're in a state of communication all the time. Question—answer, question—answer. And when to think?
— This also greatly reduces the level of cognition. Where does deep literature come from when you just don't have time to comprehend anything?
- of course. You live in a shallow mode. You glide through the information flow. But the most terrible thing is that you think you know. You think you understand. Because you seem to absorb a huge amount of information, but you still assimilate an insignificant part of it. Such infosurfing, you know. It's bad.
— Some kind of sad ending awaits us, it turns out.
- why? This is also a matter of art. Do you know what the power of art really is? Why is theater important? You're making people live slowly. It's a tremendous pleasure.
Art is strong in details, slowness of life. You have to make time flow in your natural rhythm, in which you live. Only art gives it. Therefore, it can give pleasure. Art pulls us out of this information flow and puts us in a completely different relationship of time and space. You can't pretend to be cars. We are human beings, and it sounds proud indeed.
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