"The soul is in the circulatory system"
Leo Bokeria, one of the world's leading cardiac surgeons, academician of the Russian Academy of Sciences, chief freelance specialist in cardiovascular surgery at the Ministry of Health of the Russian Federation, President of the Bakulev National Research Medical Center, President of the National Health League, admits that the older he gets, the more keenly he feels the value of human life. In a long interview with Izvestia, the legend of Russian medicine spoke about the secrets of active longevity and a happy marriage, military childhood and an appreciation of Joseph Stalin's personality, as well as the benefits of falling in love and the dangers of coffee.
"I am totally unfamiliar with burnout"
— Leo Antonovich, do you know how many operations you have performed in your life?
- no. We do not count operations, the first priority is not the number, but the complexity of the intervention and the age of the patient, which can vary greatly: children from the first day of life and very elderly people who agree to go only to the Bakuli center come to us.
— Are you familiar with burnout?
— It is totally unfamiliar to me. I operate five days a week, I do several operations every day. Everything is very complicated, with an open heart. The methods we use are as modern as possible, but they have already been proven in practice.
— I know that many years ago you completely gave up coffee ...
— Why stimulate yourself in this way? Why increase myocardial excitability? Although, when it's one or two cups a day, there's no question. If a person has never had heart problems, then you can even have three, but from a distance.
— The official website of your center says: "When we experience a feeling of falling in love, in the body... dopamine, adrenaline, oxytocin, and serotonin are produced, which reduce stress, strengthen the immune system, and improve heart function." Do cardiologists recommend falling in love?
— I recommend it too (laughs). There will be more adrenaline in the bloodstream, the pressure will rise a little — it's all good for the body.
"My predecessor was about two meters tall."
— There is such a direction — medical tourism, when people go to another country for treatment. Are our clinics in demand?
— We have the highest level of medical care. I think it's no worse than in the States. We have a very strong medical conclave, an amazing medical school. Our medical centers have all the modern equipment, and we have a lot of our own literature. So we compete with other countries, with the same States, on equal terms. But there are still differences, for example, American patients and ours are different patients. In the United States, you have to pay for every intervention, so Americans often don't go to the doctor if something is sick. Therefore, patients have different levels of awareness about their condition, which often affects the outcome.
— Is continuity important for the successful development of a medical center like yours?
— This issue is decided by the team. And these are not just words. Our center was created by several generations of doctors, we have excellent specialists, and for many years it has been accepted that one of the best becomes the head. My predecessor was Academician Vladimir Ivanovich Burakovsky, a world—renowned cardiac surgeon, about two meters tall, blue-eyed, born in Georgia, and very popular with girls (laughs). When he fell ill, he wrote a letter to Boris Nikolaevich Yeltsin, who was then president: "Dear Boris Nikolaevich, as a Russian person, you should appoint Leo Bokeria as director after my death." But I didn't know anything about it.
— What unique operations have been carried out at the center in recent years?
— We perform all the operations that exist in the global cardiac surgery practice today. The level of our specialists allows it. Our surgeons are not just highly professional, they are also very reliable in terms of following the principles during the operation — for example, at what stage should a senior be called if something is wrong. Many years ago, there were problems in this area, someone tried to hide mistakes, but we categorically eliminated this at open meetings. This is a man's life!
"Sudden cardiac death can be prevented"
— Has your attitude towards death changed during such a long surgical practice?
— No, of course not! How can it change? It's a human life. The older I get, the more I understand what it is.
— Why does sudden cardiac death occur? Can it be prevented?
— You can. A person over 40-45 years old should definitely see a doctor, no matter if there are alarming symptoms or not. The diagnosis is now at a very high level.
— So sudden death means that some kind of violation was not detected in time?
— Yes, it often happens like this: pain appears and disappears. Then again, and again. And when it gets sick again, a person thinks it will pass, but after a few minutes he is gone.
— How do you know if something is wrong with your heart?
— The main sign is pain in the chest, and it radiates to the shoulder blade. If a person feels pain for the first time, he needs to urgently run to the clinic.
— Sometimes people lead the wrong way of life, but they live to a ripe old age. Does it depend on the body's potential?
— I do not know of such cases. Unfortunately or fortunately, this does not happen.
— So the whole range of acquired heart diseases is the result of our personal choice: an incorrect lifestyle, lack of movement?
— It happens that way, but this is not the prevailing factor. More often it's still heredity.
— Can we say that any emotional outbursts are a potential risk to the cardiovascular system?
— In principle, yes, of course. Because with emotional surges, adrenaline is released into the bloodstream, and the heart rate increases. Many people take medications precisely to keep their mood the same throughout the day. And it works, it really works.
"Stalin is an absolutely pure man, absolutely!"
— What helps you keep fit?
— The joy of life. I'm serious. Of course, I've lived a hard life. There was a war going on. Dad passed away when I was three and a half years old. We lived in the city of Poti, in Georgia. The bread was on the cards. I remember, in the third grade, they take me to the bread queue at two o'clock in the afternoon. And the bread arrives after twelve o'clock at night. Then the middle sister and the eldest take turns, and at about ten o'clock in the evening, the mother, who returns with bread only after two in the morning. Of course, there was no transport, and she walked home alone for a kilometer. But not once did anyone come up and take away the bread! I remember it with joy, with pride. We survived, we all got higher education. My older sister and I became doctors. The middle sister worked as an accountant. That's the kind of life we lived. Some people talked about us later: "Here, these Georgians!"
— We have always treated Georgians warmly...
— Well, Stalin is! It's not a joke, he pulled the country out of such a hole.
— How do you feel about Stalin? This is a very controversial historical figure.
— Absolutely pure person, absolutely! The war is won, the state is strengthened. I have read many of his works. He is an absolutely brilliant man with a surprisingly pure Russian language. What he wrote is very easy to read. Nikita Khrushchev slandered him. And with this, he quarreled with the nations, and besides, he just acted meanly towards the person who appointed him. If Khrushchev, that bastard, had been like Stalin, we would definitely have been living under communism.
— Your daughters are doctors too. Did they choose this profession themselves?
— Of course, this is their own decision. Neither Mom nor I have anything to do with the choice. However, in Georgia it is the dream of all parents for their children to become doctors. I'm serious (laughs). But it was different for me personally. My older sister Marinochka enrolled in a medical institute in Odessa and wanted me to come and study with her. Mom couldn't send anything, but she would have shared it with me. I came to Odessa, and I, an excellent student, got a B for my essay. We wanted to see the work, but they only showed us a three-finger figure. And many years later, when I already knew the rector, they didn't show me either.
— Do you think someone else has been hired to take your place?
"In Odessa?" Of course (laughs). Anyway, I had to go back to Georgia, but I was too shy to go to my mom. I went to the town of Ochamchira, where my aunt lived, and went to work at a construction site. Somehow it was necessary to survive.
"The circulatory system is the least understood mechanism"
— Is talent important for a doctor?
— It is important for a doctor to be a well-educated person. Because without this, it is impossible to build a normal relationship with the patient. One person comes and explains everything consciously, and the other comes in hysterics. But each of them has the right to help.
— You once said that the soul is in the circulatory system. Why not in the heart?
— The soul is such a global phenomenon that it must, of course, reach all cells of the human body. And the only way to do this is through the circulatory system. This is a very complex mechanism, the least understood of all body systems. Imagine, here we are sitting, and our blood flow is calm. The heart is yours! — and let out the blood, tyr! — and released. Moreover, in both circles of blood circulation: in the large circle of blood circulation — from the left ventricle, in the small circle — from the right ventricle. It's amazing!
— Until the moment when my sister conceived the idea of becoming a doctor, who did you want to be? Were you dreaming about something?
— No, I was a street kid because we lived very hard. Antosh was not there. That's what Mom called Dad, and now I'm calling him. But I don't remember him at all.
— Do you consider yourself a happy person?
— I think so. I have a very good family. Olga and I studied in the same group in the First med. We went to study anatomy to take the test. The group was large, 26 people. And a girl from the band came up to me and said, "Do you want to study together?" I looked: a pretty girl with glasses, beautiful eyes. Of course, I noticed the legs. And we've been together since that day. We got married in our fifth year. She graduated from the institute with a red diploma. Olya is a very clean little man, incredibly clean. I've never heard her say anything bad about anyone.
— What is the secret of a long, happy marriage?
"A secret?" What's the secret here? We're not hiding anything (laughs). We just need to understand each other at the appropriate level. Then it will be the only way.
You can watch the full version of the interview with Leo Bokeria on the Lime podcast.
Переведено сервисом «Яндекс Переводчик»
