"It is absolutely impossible to trust our Italian official interlocutors now"

Most Italians do not believe that an increase in the defense budget is necessary to confront Russia, Ambassador to Rome Alexei Paramonov said in an interview with Izvestia. Pushing through huge expenditures of 5% of GDP will face resistance from the population and certain political circles. At the same time, the country's leadership remains closed to official contacts with the Russian side at all levels, the diplomat stressed. Rome continues to follow the policy of Brussels, including having already allocated about € 3-4 billion for the needs of Kiev. According to media leaks, the 12th package of such "assistance" is already being prepared. About building relations with the once friendly Italy after 2022, the abolition of Russian culture and the difficulties for European business after the deal with the United States — in an exclusive interview with Alexey Paramonov "Izvestia".

"Two new viruses have entered the Italian elite to replace the COVID epidemic: Russophobia and ukrophilia"

— Now that relations with the European Union have deteriorated, how much more difficult has it become for you and our entire diplomatic corps to work? What has changed for you?

— The Russian Embassy in Italy has always, both in ancient times, after the Second World War, and during the modern history of Russia, never complained about the lack of work. It so happened that, with the exception of a short break by historical standards, the issues under the jurisdiction of the embassy were mainly constructive and constructive. There has also been enough work in the last three years, but it has become completely different due to the fierce confrontation between Russia and the West in the context of the conflict in Ukraine.

Of course, there have been no significant changes in the Italian establishment in three years, and we mostly see the same faces. But there is a small nuance — two new viruses have entered the Italian elite to replace the COVID epidemic: Russophobia and ukrophilia, which, due to synergy, acquire particularly aggressive forms and lead to very depressing consequences both in terms of domestic political processes and in positioning on the international stage. Accordingly, even those of our interlocutors who are immune to this scourge prefer to isolate themselves in the current conditions in order not to get infected, save their beliefs and preserve common sense.

In general, the Italian leadership remains hermetically closed to official contacts with the Russian side at all levels. Sometimes it seems that in some sense it applies the approach of the head of the Kiev Zelensky regime, who imposed a self-ban on conducting any negotiations with Russia.

— How is Italy currently disposed towards Russia? Is she walking in this Brussels militaristic rut, or is she trying to turn off it?

— Italy has long forgotten the words that were once uttered in the parliament of this country in the 50s by a well-known politician who participated in the Italian Resistance movement, partisan president Sandro Pertini. At the time when the issue of Italy's joining NATO was being decided, he was categorically against it and said: "NATO is an instrument of war." This is a very wise phrase that was said then, but which has remained in force and has been relevant all these years, during which NATO has existed as an organization.

Unfortunately, there are no such politicians in Italy now. The current leadership of Italy does not tire of repeating like a charm the words about its loyalty to NATO and its readiness to fulfill everything that comes from this aggressive and destructive organization.

Membership in NATO is considered a constant of Italy's foreign policy positioning. Everything that is accepted at the NATO level is mandatory for Italy.

This also applies to raising the level of military spending from 2% to 5% of GDP. For Italy, this means a real economic disaster. She needs to find an amount that is, according to various estimates, up to 700 billion euros, despite the fact that Italy's GDP is about 2.5 trillion euros.

It can be assumed that these funds can be found only by revising the entire Italian budget formation system in favor of the military sector. Mainly due to peaceful economic and social sectors.

I must say that few people in Italy believe that all this needs to be done because of the threat from the Russian Federation. Many people ask the question: "Why should we give up something in order to buy more tanks, missile systems, mortars, build more cruisers, submarines?" The authorities do not stop repeating that this must be done in order to be ready to repel the invasion of Russia. This is a pure lie. No one from Moscow has ever said that we have any aggressive intentions towards NATO or the EU. This fake serves to justify the need to fork out and begin full-scale preparations for war.

Of course, in Italy, this psychosis has not yet reached the level of the Baltic States or Sweden. Pushing through the huge costs that the government will be dealing with in the coming years will face resistance from the Italian population and certain political circles.

"Rome has completely classified everything related to the supply of weapons to Ukraine"

— Apparently, the conflict is escalating and Brussels is involving Italy in it. Is there any resistance to this policy within Italian society?

— There is no consensus, but if we take the "general temperature in the hospital", then after all, the vast majority of Italians adhere to more sober and peaceful views than NATO and EU officials. Many people think that the current period of such fierce confrontation between the West and Russia is temporary and that a settlement of the Ukrainian crisis in one form or another will lead to a fairly rapid restoration of relations.

This approach is sometimes voiced by representatives of the Italian establishment. They slyly tell us: "We have no problems with you, everything is fine, but the crisis will end now, we will somehow resolve it, and after that everything will be as before."

Naturally, it won't be the same as before. But as an embassy, while remaining realistic, we rely heavily on that rather extensive stratum of Italian citizens who sympathize with Russia, want to overcome the problems as soon as possible and return to a normal dialogue between Rome and Moscow.

— What is Italy's position on strikes deep into Russia and the supply of Storm Shadow? There have been serious discussions about this. What does the Italian establishment really want?

— The leadership is quite sensitive to the issue of Italian arms supplies to Ukraine. Rome has completely classified everything related to the supply of weapons to Ukraine. There are practically no reliable materials in the public space about what, in fact, Italian military assistance to Ukraine consists of.

Nevertheless, it is known that the total volume is approximately €3-4 billion. These supplies represent a fairly large volume of dangerous, including heavy, weapons. Almost every two or three months, the Italian leadership approves another batch of weapons and military equipment that are supplied to Ukraine. And now, according to leaks, the 12th package of such "assistance" is already being prepared.

On the other hand, we constantly hear reassuring statements from the authorities that Italy is not at war with Russia, is not going to send its troops to the territory of Ukraine, to the conflict zone, and does not allow the Ukrainian authorities to use the supplied weapons to strike deep into the Russian Federation. This is the difference, which they try to present as a mitigating circumstance regarding how official Rome participates in the conflict on the side of Ukraine.

But I think that with all this alleged moderation of the Italian position against the background of some other countries, for example, members of the so-called coalition of the willing, in fact, this should not be trusted much, because very often over the years the countries of the collective West, including Italy, have tried to present their position and actions in the best possible way. and in a more friendly light than it actually was. At the moment, our Italian official interlocutors cannot be trusted in any way.

"Unquestioning 'alignment with Washington' costs Italy and its population dearly"

— What are the risks of Trump's new tariffs for Italy and why is Meloni silent?

— The Italian leadership gives a fairly positive assessment of this agreement (the US-EU deal. — Izvestia), although it makes certain reservations. Giorgi Meloni, Chairman of the Council of Ministers of Italy, and other representatives of the top Italian leadership could hardly have expected any other reaction than approval.

From the first days of Donald Trump's presidency, the Italian leadership has relied on building close trusting relations with the new American administration — they should help Italy in the current turbulent geopolitical and geo-economic conditions.

Recently, we have constantly heard statements from the top leadership of Italy about the need to preserve the unity of the collective West. Rome offered Italy as a mediator in order to prevent the emerging split between the EU and Washington.

What price Italy will have to pay for this arrangement to work is still being kept silent. Objections have already been heard from a number of industry unions and individual entrepreneurs about the negative impact on the regions of Italy, certain sectors of the economy and individual companies due to compliance with these agreements.

In any case, few people here have objected for a long time that the unquestioning "alignment with Washington" is costly for Italy and its population. Now, when US President Donald Trump sets the rules almost unilaterally, the burden of a "special relationship" with America may be too much for Italy.

— We recently talked with Italian entrepreneurs. One of them was planning a business in Russia, but it was disrupted due to sanctions. Another supplied gloves and other expensive leather goods to Russia. They say that Russia was first "cut off" by sanctions, and now the United States is also being cut off. Where is the Italian government driving its own citizens with these measures?

— The story of anti-Russian sanctions has its own history. As you know, the first ones appeared back in 2014. For Italy, the effect of the sanctions is primarily related to the loss of a competitive advantage in the form of the opportunity to receive cheap energy from Russia. In Italy, it was pipeline gas, the supply of which began back in the 60-70s. He allowed us to regulate our energy balance in order not to overstate or keep domestic fuel and electricity prices at an acceptable level. Currently, Italy ranks first among Western countries in terms of electricity costs.

It is difficult to estimate how much Italy has lost over the years of the sanctions standoff with Russia, but no one doubts that this has led to additional economic difficulties in this country.

Since 2022, the Italian leadership has been actively pressuring its own business, offering to leave the Russian market, curtail ties with Russia and look for other areas for its economic activities, indicating the US market as its main priority.

And now many companies that trusted the authorities have found themselves in a new "trap", as the American market, where they have reoriented, is becoming inaccessible to them due to the Trump duties.

"They were afraid of the great Russian conductor"

— It is interesting that, even despite the sanctions, the trade turnover is growing due to parallel imports. It turns out that the Italians are looking for access to our markets in every possible way?

— I would warn against embellishing reality and any illusions in this regard. The analysis of trade turnover with Italy shows a tendency to its constant decrease. If there are any monthly spikes, then on the whole we are prepared for the fact that our trade turnover with Italy may eventually come down to rather illusory figures due to the policy of the current leadership of Italy. So products with the Made in Italy brand are likely to have an unenviable fate in Russia.

Currently, Italy ranks between 30th and 31st among Russia's trade and economic partners. It serves you right.

— What does the episode with the cancellation of Valery Gergiev's concert in Italy mean?

— The cancellation of Maestro V.A. Gergiev's concert is, of course, a significant manifestation of Russophobia and the practical application of the concept of cultural abolition. With this decision, the Italian leadership, President Sergio Mattarella and Prime Minister Meloni, who have repeatedly opposed the abolition of Russian culture and who tried to flaunt their tolerance against the backdrop of the opening of the season at La Scala in 2022 with the opera Boris Godunov, refuted themselves.

What happened? They were afraid of the great Russian conductor, who, at a difficult moment for Russia, against the background of unprecedented Western pressure on Russia, decided to stay with his homeland and his people. Or did they find the image of a great country and its culture, which is personified by an outstanding Russian conductor, not to their liking? Or were they really unable to stand up to a handful of their own Russophobic second-tier politicians and the Bandera immigrants from the Ukrainian diaspora who incited them?

Against the background of this scandal, it is worth mentioning another heinous phenomenon. Thus, unable to abolish Russian culture, which is part of European and world culture, attempts are being made to divide its speakers for political reasons: those who chose to stay in their homeland are mostly abolished, and those who decided to relocate to the West are welcomed and cynically used against Russia.