- Статьи
- Science and technology
- "Deep-sea circumnavigation of the world expedition will make discoveries of global importance"
"Deep-sea circumnavigation of the world expedition will make discoveries of global importance"
The discoveries made during the study of the great ocean depths have given rise to new theories about the beginning of life on Earth and its diversity on other planets. Anatoly Sagalevich, head of the Laboratory for the Scientific Operation of Deep-sea Manned Spacecraft at the P.P. Shirshov Institute of Oceanology of the Russian Academy of Sciences, Doctor of Technical Sciences, Professor, Hero of Russia, told Izvestia about this in an interview. The scientist also reported on the prepared plan for the restoration of deep-sea vehicles "Mir". Their first task may be a round—the-world expedition, which includes 85 main dive sites - this is a mission of universal importance, he added.
"I defended my doctoral thesis and went to build Worlds in Finland"
— Anatoly Mikhailovich, what was the reason for the creation of "Worlds"?
— In 1965, I joined the Institute of Oceanology. At first, I was engaged in the development of equipment for oceanological research, in particular, a continuous seismic profiling system. In the same year, Andrey Monin, an outstanding man and scientist, became the director of the institute. In 1969, he visited the Oceanographic Museum of Monaco (also called the Jacques-Yves Cousteau Cousteau Museum) and met with the famous researcher.
Deep-sea vehicle "Mir", 1989
Cousteau told the director that such a large scientific institution as our institute should have its own deep-sea manned vehicles. That's how it all started. First, we bought Pisces devices. They are designed for diving up to 2 thousand meters. They were used for scientific research and international projects.
Later, it was decided that ships were needed for depths up to 6 thousand meters, since they occupy 98% of the World Ocean area. As a result, a project was developed for two deep—sea vessels, Mir-1 and Mir-2. The main merit in this work belongs to the oceanologist and designer, Hero of Social Work Igor Mikhaltsev. In 1985, I defended my doctoral thesis and went to build Worlds in Finland, carrying out the technical side of this work.
— Why was this country chosen?
— At that time, Finland practically lived at the expense of the USSR. Among other things, most of our fleet was built there.
It was easy and productive to work with the Finns. They selected the most capable young specialists, excellent students from universities and institutes in their respective fields. The project was headed by an experienced and competent engineer Saul Rukhman. We became close friends and discussed all the technical issues, and then submitted them for consideration with the engineering group.
Is it true that Soviet deep—sea vehicles were created with the active opposition of the United States?
— Yes, there was opposition. Among other things, there was the CoCom organization (Coordinating Committee for Export Control), which monitored the supply of equipment from capstans to socialist countries. The restrictions applied to deep—sea equipment, first with diving up to 300 m, then up to 1000 m.
Nevertheless, we managed to sign a contract with the Canadian company International Hydrodynamics Corp. In 1971, I went there as an observer for the creation of the Pisces-4 device. However, the Americans vetoed the project, and the Canadians revoked the export license.
Later, when we already had "Worlds," I was diving with former Canadian Prime Minister Pierre Trudeau in Monterey Bay (off the coast of California). He told how Admiral Rickover, known as the father of the US nuclear fleet, came to Ottawa specifically and said that Russia should not receive deep-sea vehicles. Nevertheless, we maintained contacts with the company and signed a new contract in 1974. As a result, we received two devices — Pisces-7 and Pisces-11.
Then our participation in expeditions and presentations at conferences formed a circle of like-minded people. They understood that technology determines the future of scientific research. This support helped to overcome resistance and build "Worlds". They were launched in 1987.
"There is no such complex and there was no one else in the world"
— By what parameters have the Worlds become the best in the world?
— The complex included a scientific carrier vessel with two deep-sea vehicles. There is no such complex and there was no one else in the world. In 1994, the American Center for Technology Development recognized Mira as the best in terms of design, reliability, and functionality. In total, during the operation of the devices, we made 37 expeditions, during which there was not a single unsolved problem.
Significantly, I met the director of the Titanic, James Cameron. When he first saw the devices, he said that they were an engineering gem.
Interior design of the Mir-2 deep-sea habitable vehicle
— You mentioned Cameron. Can you tell us about your cooperation?
— The relationship has developed on two levels — professional and human. Together we made 49 dives. Three people were placed on each of the "Worlds". Their functions were distributed. One was lighting, the other was filming, and I was operating the camera. The devices themselves also performed their roles. The first served as an "operator", the second as an "actor".
During the work, Cameron used a special platform with a 35mm film camera, which was mounted on a movable platform with hydraulics. In 1995, underwater was also filmed. To take pictures inside the sunken Titanic, they used a remote-controlled device on a fiber-optic cable that penetrated into the interior.
By the way, a lot of innovations have been developed as a result of such filming. Including, for example, live streaming technology from deep. It was first used in 2005 while working on the documentary "Aliens of the Deep".
Cameron and I have maintained friendly relations. The last time I visited him was in Los Angeles before the coronavirus pandemic. The director has now moved to New Zealand, where he is filming the sequel to Avatar. He once confessed that he had only one true friend in the world, and that was me.
"The discovery of living creatures at great depths has given rise to new theories about the beginning of life on Earth"
— What discoveries have you made with the help of "Worlds"?
— There are many of them. For example, no one has ever been to the North Pole before. Previous achievements were limited to the surface of the ice, under which 4,261 m of water column remained to the pole. We were the first to go down to the bottom and set up the Russian flag there.
After this expedition, for example, astronaut Buzz Aldrin, who visited the Moon, said: "Anatoly and his team have done something that can only be repeated when the ice melts at the North Pole." And cosmonaut Alexey Leonov noticed: "You did what I did. I was the only one who went into outer space, and you entered a closed hydro-space."
Of our scientific discoveries, chemosynthetic communities are of interest. These are life forms that exist at great depths. Here, protein formation occurs without light — in total darkness. Unlike photosynthesis, the energy basis of these creatures is redox reactions. The discovery of living creatures at depth has given rise to new theories about the beginning of life on Earth and the diversity of its forms on other planets.
— Five years ago, the Chinese submarine Fendouzhe sank into the Mariana Trench to a depth of 10,909 m. Tell us about your participation in the project.
— The cooperation started in 2015. Representatives of Shanghai Oceanic University invited me to participate in the project. They have created a specialized "Hadal center". The hadal zone is an area of the deepest ocean with extreme conditions — ultra-high pressure, lack of light, and a unique chemical environment. The goal of the project is to reach depths of up to 11 thousand meters. m.
Although the fee was modest, it was important for me to implement the idea itself, which, unfortunately, did not find support in our country. I have involved the remaining Finnish specialists in the project, who previously worked on the creation of "Worlds" (although their company has already ceased to exist). The device was built in five years, and now the Chinese are successfully operating at extreme depths.
Recently, our scientist Andrey Gebruk made a 9,5 thousand dive. m in the Japanese trough. This collaboration proved that even when ideas don't find support at home, they can bear fruit internationally.
"I have drawn up a complete plan for the restoration of the Worlds"
— In Russia they want to build new deep-sea vehicles. Is it justified?
— New ones are probably impractical — it's better to upgrade the proven ones. For example, the construction of the Chinese device cost $ 68 million. When we created the Worlds in Finland, two devices cost $40 million. Currently, the construction of a new six-thousand-meter building will require approximately $ 45-50 million.
If we talk about the Mira and the launching mechanism on the Akademik Mstislav Keldysh carrier ship, then about $20-25 million is needed to restore the entire complex.
To do this, it is necessary to conduct research, purchase equipment and completely rebuild the devices. I have drawn up a complete plan for the restoration of the "Worlds". However, money is needed. Work is currently underway to attract financing.
Scientific research vessel "Akademik Mstislav Keldysh"
— In the 21st century, should deep-sea vehicles be controlled by humans or with the help of unmanned technologies?
— Once, the former director of our institute, Andrei Monin, asked Jacques-Yves Cousteau: "If you had a choice — a remote-controlled device or a device with a human inside, which would you choose?" Jacques smiled slightly and replied: "No robot will ever replace a human underwater, because the most accurate optical The device is a human eye, and the most advanced computer is a human brain."
When the eye and brain sink to the bottom of the ocean, completely different things happen — I have seen this from my own experience. Aesthetics of human perception is included. Aesthetics is the basis of many great discoveries.
— If the Worlds are restored, which first expedition should they be sent on?
— Back in the 1990s, together with Igor Mikhaltsev, a project for a round-the-world expedition with deep-sea dives was developed. Initially, 60 research points in the world's oceans were identified, then the list was expanded to 85.
The project is designed for 2.5–3 years, with a priority on studying hydrothermal fields, reef zones, the Arctic and Antarctic. It was also interesting to explore the sunken ships and other interesting places. Unfortunately, the project could not be implemented at the time. However, a deep-sea circumnavigation expedition will make a phenomenal number of discoveries. This is a mission of universal importance.
Переведено сервисом «Яндекс Переводчик»
