"According to all the documents, I am objectively unfit to be a champion"
For 10 years now, the main star of men's short-distance hurdling in Russian athletics has been Sergey Shubenkov, who won the 2015 World Championships and several silver medals at the World Championships. But in recent years, he has gained competitors — the experienced Artem Makarenko and the young Anatoly Kiselyov. The latter won gold at the 2023 Summer Russian Championships in the 110 m hurdles. And recently, he completed the winter indoor season with a victory in the 60 m hurdles as part of the final of the "Snow Queen" series.
In an interview with Izvestia, the 23-year-old athlete explained why he didn't want to be a champion, how he missed the chance to participate in international competitions, talked about his relationship with Shubenkov and remembered how he tried to make a goalkeeper career in football, and also explained why he rejects healthy lifestyle and gets annoyed at those who promote it on social networks.
— How did you win the final of the "Snow Queen"?
— I wasn't the stronger one, but Tema Makarenko got a little sick. Otherwise, he would have won against me anyway. I could make up a fight, so to speak, adjust the Theme so that he runs even faster. So far, I'm not ready for 55 (7.55 sec. — the time considered successful in the 60 m hurdles. — Ed.) or something like that (smiles). I was hoping to get into the top three, but I didn't expect to be the first. After all, five days after the Russian Championship is very little time for recovery. We were all tired, with stone legs. Therefore, whoever survived, he ran. I actually thought Gerasim would be the strongest (Matvey Gerasimov. — Ed.), because he did not make it to the finals at the Russian Championship and had a day more time. I thought it would be more lively (laughs). But it turned out otherwise.
— At the same time, your victory at the 2023 Russian Summer Championship was due to the fact that Sergey Shubenkov was injured.
- yes. Listen, I always like to be objective. If only I had shown the time somewhere, like Sergey or Artyom... But I didn't even show 7.55 seconds on the students. One day, my 7.36 was not counted because of the wind. Therefore, according to all the documents, I am objectively unfit to be a champion. I want to be one, I'm working hard with the coaches for my greatness, but for now I'm just taking advantage of the weakness of others.
— What is your relationship with Shubenkov?
— I used to be afraid of him, but I overcame it. And before the Topic, Makarenko overcame it. What's with Shubenkov, what's with Vitaly Parakhonko (Belarusian track and field athlete. — Ed.) I really enjoy running. They are incredibly positive, contented and happy people. They make me feel really good, so I like running with them. They're like that to me... Shubenkkov is probably already like a father, a second dad. I get up on the path with him, and he says to me: "Son, it's going to be all right, let's run now." And you relax at that moment. And if someone is nearby in the style of Tema Makarenko or Semyon Manakov, you can never run. It's hard butting heads with the same Seed.
— Morally suppressing?
— Yes, it's mentally hard. Have you seen him? Have you seen this huge sleeper? I'm usually small, and he comes out — such a sleeper — then, of course, it becomes mentally sad.
— What is Makarenko suppressing?
— Artyom, after all... How many times has he been the champion of Russia? Double indoors. And three times, if you also take summer gold. Of course, when he starts, you jump off the pads and think, "Well, I still have to work about all the time right now, that's the whole distance. There's no way to relax there." Because he has such a wild start... I do not know how he achieved this. It's actually, it's phenomenal, it's gorgeous. I envy him. I really want to learn this kind of start, but I don't have a single coach who could teach me this kind of thing. I work the entire distance. I can only win by distance.
— You have a habit of dancing after successful races. Judging by the way Shubenkov reacted to this after the finale of "The Snow Queen", it doesn't really annoy him.
— I always talk to him right after the race, when I win. He's always freaking out, saying, "You're going to pretend you won again!" But we communicate well with him. I don't know how he treats me, but I treat him like a father. I am as positive as possible. How many times have we teased each other, and talked, and made fun of each other (laughs).
— Was there any advice on his part that you persistently follow?
— You know, there are people who don't pass on their secrets after a generation, they keep them. Like I won't tell anyone, it's stupid. In fact, if you're leaving anyway, if your century is ending anyway, one way or another, no matter how insulting it may sound, you need to pass on your experience to someone...
— Is it time to tell Shubenkov to you?
— No, Serezha can still. I believe in Serega. I'm waiting for him next season and I hope he runs again. At least I hope for his 7.50. But in the future, I hope that he will pass on his knowledge to young people. Just like I am to any other person. And it will simply move the entire barrier nation forward. Any secrets help us all become faster and better together.
— Did you manage to go to the World Junior Championships in Kenya before February 2022?
"Just don't run there. I ate at the expense of the organizers and went home. I was informed that I would not run. But that was my mistake — I had previously incorrectly indicated an additional place of residence for doping officers. And I was punished for it. Everyone who participated in the tournament had to pass three additional tests. But they didn't take it from me because he incorrectly indicated his place of residence. And when I came to Kenya, they told me that there were not enough doping tests. I was like, "Why didn't they tell me in Moscow?" I would just take the train home to Nizhny Novgorod and go. But I was already told about it in Kenya, when it was too late. I stayed there all week, practiced, looked at the world champions, and ran with them in training. And he left.
— What did you manage to eat at the expense of the organizers?
"I don't know what this thing is called. It looks like a cupcake, but it's very big. Here it is right in a container in the style of a cupcake, and next to it there are a lot of toppings. Chocolate, honey, something else. You take a piece, cut it off, and spread it on whatever you want. Awesome stuff. You're just sitting there, gorging yourself. After that, I returned 2 kg heavier than I was. Because there is no need to prepare — the season is already over.
— Don't you consider yourself a zozhnik?
— Yes, I'm not a zozhnik. I think everyone understands when they need to keep fit and when they can relax. I can go to the Mac, and have burgers, and pizza.
"Even in the middle of the season?"
- yes. I tried to eat right. And I tried not to sit on it. I didn't feel any significant difference. The only thing is that there are stomach problems. That's why I try not to eat spicy food before the start, otherwise you'll be sad in the morning.
— How many days before the victorious start in the final of the "Snow Queen" did you eat pizza?
— I was celebrating the third place at the Russian Championship when I arrived two days later from Moscow to Nizhny Novgorod. And the next day I ate pizza. That is, three days after the final with the girl, we ordered pizza. And the final of the "Snow Queen" was four days later. It's strange for me sometimes to look at a bunch of proper girls on social media who tell and show pictures of how they are sitting on healthy food and proper nutrition. And I think about them: "How you piss me off! You're not an athlete, but you're doing this kind of stuff!" Athletes are people who spend days and weeks dying in training. Grandpa and I love watching billiards and admire the participants there, who work tirelessly for seven hours a day, kicking this poor ball into this pocket. These are athletes! And if you're not a professional athlete, then it's kind of bullshit when you tell everyone about proper nutrition, how to fall asleep and wake up properly. That's not how it works. You won't become a mega—athlete from this - you'll just get yourself fucked up at some point. You'll run like a panda with red eyes: "I want meat!" But he's not.
— When everyone was banned in 2022, didn't you bite your elbows that you missed the last chance to run on the international stage for many years?
— It turned out to be situational. And it could happen at any moment of life. Including today, I might have forgotten to specify that address, and tomorrow. I never blame myself for things that I didn't do or did wrong. So it was necessary.
— Is there any hope that there will still be a chance to compete at the Olympics and the adult World Championships?
— There is. If they tell me straight away tomorrow that I need to prepare for the Olympics, for the World Cup, for anything!.. That's it, I'm going to live in the stadium! I'll live there, sleep there, eat there. I'm going to die there! I will prepare for everything possible if they tell me that there is a chance!
— Why did you start running with hurdles?
— Initially I wanted to play football. I think I would make a good goalkeeper! I had an insanely cool reaction. But unfortunately, I just didn't have anyone to coach me. At our school in Nizhny Novgorod, we had a good coach for field players, but there was no coach for goalkeepers. And I had to be taught straight, because I came to football at the age of 14-15. And it was already too late. Everyone already knew how to manage a team or something, but I was zero. I can catch the ball, I can make saves, but I can't manage the team. That was a problem. I've been trying to deal with it for a year or six months. Everyone in the team liked it, fell in love, but realized that I just had to make a cardinal leap in order to qualify for something. To do what I couldn't do when I was 15.
"And they left?"
— I decided: okay, it's not working, so it's not working. But now I love watching all the World and European football championships. Here I'm right for any kind of fuss, except for a hunger strike. I can get up at two in the morning and watch hockey or soccer. I love them so much. After all, team sports are very interesting and exciting. Because not everything depends on you. Unless the goalkeeper is half the team. That's why I was very proud to play in this position. Because if not me, then who else will save the guys?
— How did you get into athletics when you stopped playing football?
— I started playing mini-football and volleyball just for myself. And then came coach Viktor Viktorovich Plotnikov from athletics. He offered to go study. I didn't like it at first. I think athletics is not interesting because you just run there. And then I came to the second training session, got involved and started working.
— Did you switch to barriers right away?
— At first it was just running: 100 m, 200 m, 60 m. I also tried to practice jumping. They even wanted to put me in the all-around. But then coach Vladimir Vladimirovich Shishkin came and said: "You're with me." I didn't understand what it was at first. But they brought me to the training session — it was hard, and I literally felt sick after it. And I look at Shishkin like this: "Oh, cool, thank you! Is this a one-time promotion?" He says, "No, that's it now, you're with me!" And so I stayed in the barriers. They just threw me into the inferno right away, and I was like, "Great, thanks, it was fun!" Maybe the coach was hooked by this reaction. And then everything started spinning. It was already impossible to get away from this view.
— How old were you then?
— 15. I came in very late. Two years later, he won his first Russian championship in his year of birth. And three years later he received a Master of Sports. All this time, I was bombarded with work in training — I somehow digested it. I didn't have the proper training that I should have when I was 10-12 years old, when I was taught how to walk, run, and run over barriers. I was thrown into a cauldron, where two or three hurdlers had already told me, "I'm sorry for you." And we ran together eight times for 200 m with four minutes of rest between the races. I was like, "Thanks, I really like it. What about tomorrow?" And tomorrow it's nine for 300. And my reaction is, "Awesome, thanks a lot!" And that's how you work with them every day. But initially I also didn't have stamina, because I was a goalkeeper, that is, I didn't run a lot. I had explosive speed, but I didn't have the stamina or the desire to work. However, every day I was just bombarded with work. I thought: "You'd better kill me!" But when I recovered, even something worked out. And then I got sucked into this topic. And if I'm passionate about something, I give it all my free time. And so I started watching videos of who runs how, what kind of technique, and began offering the coach something to take from it. The coach explained to me that I didn't need it because I had other data. As a result, outside of training, I climbed into the gym without him, trying to train what I had seen from others. He caught me at it and gave me a cradle. As a result, we were constantly arguing about how to train. And in these arguments, the truth was born. As a result, it took a year to get me at least some kind of equipment. My coach sometimes tells me: "You run very beautifully, but also very scary. If it works, it will be a record. If it doesn't work out, you'll get killed." Because I'm short and I run in millimeters.
— Do you have any idols among goalkeepers?
— If you take legends, you usually look at those who look like you in terms of physical parameters. I really love Iker Casillas. But he's 190 cm tall. He's cool, but I would never become one. I try to look at an idol that you can at least technically reach in theory. This is Oliver Kahn. Generally a crazy man who scared all the teams. He scared the players on the field, both his own and others. At the same time, he's as tall as me. Small. But it's big in the sense that it's pumped up. And it seems to be different from me. Due to its formidable appearance. Guillermo Ochoa, a Mexican, was also small. I was studying there. The man who flew to nines from the middle of the gate. He saved the balls right in front of him. He's a great guy, a great goalkeeper, just amazing. And I'll remember Manuel Neuer from the current ones. Crazy reaction, stretching, playing with the ball. Everything is very beautiful. I've been looking at him lately. Of course, I like Ter Stegen, and the cool second goalkeeper from Real Madrid, the kid from Ukraine.
— Andrey Lunin?
— Yes, he's just handsome. I watched him last season, when Thibaut Courtois was injured in Madrid, and Lunin got to the basics — he played flawlessly. I liked it so much. I don't really like Real Madrid very much, but I watched the team's matches purely because of Lunin.
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