"Let them unban us if they don't touch Israel."
Russian soccer faced many challenges in the past year. Difficulties with the organization of friendly matches of the Russian national team gave rise to criticism for playing against weak teams like Brunei (11:0). Toward the end of the year, a scandal erupted with the statements of Samara Region Governor Vyacheslav Fedorishchev, who, after analyzing the activities of the Krylya Sovetov club, announced possible corruption in the referee corps and the problem of agents controlling the activities of teams. Meanwhile, the Russian Football Union (RFU) continues to try to remove FIFA and UEFA sanctions from our national and club teams, suspended from international competitions since 2022.
In an interview with Izvestia, RFU general secretary Maxim Mitrofanov explained the benefits of holding matches against teams of Brunei's level, spoke about the position of the Israel Football Federation on Russia's suspension, commented on the election of RFU president Alexander Dyukov to the executive committee of the Russian Olympic Committee (ROC), and also assessed the situation with the growth of club payments to agents and relations with the Russian Premier League (RPL).
- The Russian national team ends 2024 in 34th place in the FIFA ranking. Can we say that the matches with Brunei, Syria, the trip to Vietnam were not in vain?
- We do not agree and play friendly matches in principle for nothing. It is clear that everyone - the coaching staff, us, and above all the fans - want to see top-level opponents of the national team. It is interesting. And the players don't need any additional motivation. But there are different national teams. We need to treat all of them with great respect. Including building contacts with the national teams, which in normal life you will not play with, but will not meet them due to the peculiarities of selection for the World Cup. But their national federations are members of the FIFA Congress. And the voice of each of them has its own influence when making decisions. In addition, at these congresses they will tell their colleagues how they have been to Russia, what a beautiful country and excellent stadiums we have. Or how the Russian national team came to visit them. And they will say that there is absolutely nothing to be afraid of in Russia, so we need to take its teams back to the international arena in official competitions. These contacts are now having their effect: our junior and youth national teams are gladly received in Latin America. We are also in contact with a large number of Asian and African countries, which the RFU did not have before.
- In 2022, the RFU agreed to play a friendly against Bosnia, but due to the stance of some of their national team stars, led by Edin Dzeko and Miralem Pjanic, the meeting fell through. Now that Pjanic is at CSKA and has actually recanted his unwillingness to deal with Russia, is there a possibility to re-enter negotiations with the local federation?
- We have good relations with the Bosnian Football Federation. If they have the opportunity and desire, we will talk about it. For now, unfortunately, we have the opportunity. By "unfortunately" I mean that we would prefer to play in official matches and look for opponents for friendlies only in those few windows for the national teams, when there are no qualifying and final tournaments of the World and European championships, matches of the UEFA Nations League. But today the situation is such that for each pause it is necessary to look for opponents for friendly matches, to negotiate with their federations, based on the fact whether they have official games during this period or not. It is the same situation with Bosnia. We know its calendar in the qualifying for the World Cup - 2026, next year, 2025, it will always play matches in its group, so for now the issue of a friendly match with it is not relevant. There is no substantive discussion of this topic with them yet. But there are constant negotiations with other federations, taking into account the calendars of their official matches.
- I would like to talk about why Russian teams are officially banned. Many believe that this is a direct reaction to the start of a special military operation in Ukraine. But as far as I understand, there is nothing in the wording of the decisions on sanctions about military operations and the annexation to Russia of new regions that FIFA and UEFA consider to be Ukrainian.
- There are two bans. One is from FIFA and the other is from UEFA. Accordingly, the reasoning behind these decisions is slightly different. The reasoning of UEFA's decision from three points: 1) the impossibility, in their opinion, to ensure the safety of teams and fans when visiting Russia and holding a match on Russian territory, as well as the threat of security and various provocations for Russian teams and fans if they end up in other UEFA member countries; 2) logistical difficulties; and 3) specific refusals by the national teams of Poland, the Czech Republic and Sweden to play Russia in March 2022 in the knockout matches of the World Cup qualifiers in Qatar.
FIFA's decision was shorter. Its essence is that the World Cup in Qatar should have been held in November 2022, in March three national teams refused to play with Russia. Accordingly, there is no possibility to find windows in the calendar in the remaining time to hold these matches. That is, even if it was still possible to hold the knockout matches, but later, there would be no room in the calendar. Not to mention the fact that if Russia were to qualify for the World Cup as a result of these clashes, some of the opponents in Qatar could refuse to play us. Accordingly, as FIFA formulated it, there was a threat of violating the integrity of the competition in the final part of the World Cup. Therefore, it was decided to suspend the Russian national team. Formally, it was spelled out that "until a special order", but the logic of that decision implied that it concerned the championship.
But further this ban was never canceled and was prolonged with the wording "until a special separate order" - both in the case of FIFA and UEFA.
- It turns out we can't accuse them of double standards when Israel and Turkey got nothing for their troops entering Syrian territory. But is there a possibility to remove the first point about provocations against Russians in European countries from UEFA's arguments against Russia after the November story about the attack on Israeli fans in Amsterdam after the match between Ajax and Maccabi?
- This is a question that we constantly put on the agenda. And not to restrict Israeli teams in any way - we have excellent relations with the Israel Football Federation, we are in friendly relations with its president and general secretary. And it is not a question of imposing any sanctions on them. And, by the way, their position is also that it is necessary to remove sanctions from Russian teams.
- Has the Israeli federation officially stated this?
- Their opinion is that there is no reason to apply such a decision to Russia.
- So the Israelis realize that sooner or later they may be subject to the sanctions that have been applied against Russian teams since 2022?
- Moreover, they should be projected. That is, if we move away from the situation of double standards and return everyone to the mode of making objective decisions, then, if such sanctions have already been applied to Russian teams, on what grounds are they not applied to Israeli teams? But we are not fighting for Israel to be banned after us. But for us to be banned, as long as Israel is not touched.
- Can UEFA's argument about the impossibility to ensure the safety of teams and fans in Russia be dismissed now, given that after February 2022 the Serbian national team, Serbian and Azerbaijani clubs, whose federations are members of UEFA, have already played away friendlies in Russia? While no security problems have been recorded, it was not even close to what happened to Israeli fans in Amsterdam.
- Yes, we use that argument as well. And the fact that teams from other continental confederations come to Russia to play matches against our national team. And the fact that major competitions in other sports have already been held here. In all cases, security was provided perfectly. By the way, among the UEFA national teams, we can remember not only the March visit of the Serbian men's team to Moscow, but also two matches of the Azerbaijani women's team with Russia in Sochi in late November and early December. There were no complaints about the organization, security and logistics from the guests. Yes, the logistics became more complicated somewhere due to restrictions on air transportation. But even those who flew to the matches with connecting flights did not voice any complaints.
UEFA development tournaments - official competitions - are held in Russia. UEFA officials visit them. They can perfectly see the quality level of organization, including in terms of safety. The RFU cites this as an argument. Unfortunately, this has not yielded results so far, but we expect that in time the number of such examples will force to make decisions on the gradual reduction of sanctions.
- Even last year wrestlers participated in competitions on the territory of Serbia. Recently, swimmers traveled to the World Championships in Hungary. There is no feeling that the RFU should try to play away matches in these European countries in order to improve its negotiating position with UEFA?
- This is just one of a large number of arguments or activities that need to be done in order to then bring them forward. But the positions of the International Olympic Committee (IOC) and international federations for other sports will be very important here, including the results of the participation of our athletes at those tournaments where they were admitted in neutral status. I can feel it in the negotiations. What does UEFA not want? UEFA does not want to come under pressure as the only federation that will decide on the admission of Russian teams. I guess they rushed it. And they realize that they rushed with such a hasty decision to suspend Russian teams - it was quite possible to use the Belarusian option.
- But the Belarusian option with the admission of soccer teams to European competitions, but with home matches outside their home countries, appeared before February 2022.
- Yes, it happened after the incident with the grounded airplane. In fact, the current sanctions against Belarusian soccer did not happen because of the start of a special military operation, while other Belarusian athletes were suspended after February 2022 to the same extent as Russian ones. And it shows that UEFA hurried up with such a tough decision against us. Now it is difficult for them to walk back from such a decision. They don't want to be alone. That is why the argument that individual sports federations are more and more letting our athletes to compete on the territory of Europe, albeit in a neutral status for the time being, is important. Also important for UEFA is the IOC's advisory position, in the absence of objections from the IOC it will be easier to make decisions on the admission to competitions of teams from playing sports.
- In water sports, we have been cleared even in team disciplines like the swimmers' relay. But in the playing sport of water polo, Russian national teams and clubs are still not allowed to compete internationally. Isn't there a feeling that soccer and other games are the last in line to be unbanned?
- The IOC is now saying that our teams are not allowed in any form in playing sports. That is, in individual sports Russians are beginning to be allowed in neutral status more and more, but not in games. Here the work of the Russian Olympic Committee (ROC) through the IOC will be part of the overall effort to restore our sport in the international arena.
- For these purposes, Alexander Dyukov was elected to the ROC executive committee, although since 2018, when Nikolay Tolstykh's term of office in this body expired, the RFU has not nominated its representatives there?
- Mikhail Vladimirovich Degtyarev is organizing a strong platform for the development of sport on the basis of the ROC. The platform has, among other things, communication functions. I hope that the experience of Alexander Valeryevich and the entire RFU in many aspects of the development of our soccer will be in demand by the ROC. Alexander Valeryevich was in contact with Mikhail Vladimirovich. The wish was expressed that we should take a more active part in the work of the ROC, especially since our positions coincide in all areas: we are engaged in training the reserve, increasing the popularity of sports and the institution of top-level sports. Including in the current difficult times associated with the suspension from international competitions. Plus we are an Olympic sport, albeit with complicated restrictions in terms of the format of selection for the Summer Olympics and age limits in terms of forming the Olympic team (no more than three players over the age of 23 - Izvestia). It is also important to have another point of contact with the Russian Ministry of Sport, given that its head now heads the ROC as well.
- RPL president Alexander Alaev, referring to the words of some club leaders, said that their sponsors are ready to revise their contracts because of the loud words of Samara Region governor Vyacheslav Fedorishchev about corruption in the referee corps. Does this story affect the RFU's relations with its partners?
- Our relations with our partners have not been affected in any way.
- More than a month ago in social networks there was a scandal around the soccer player of the team "Strogino" born in 2009 Renat Mudrak. The well-known lawyer Anton Smirnov concluded on the basis of screenshots of documents published in his Telegram-channel that the boy was born in 2008. Does the RFU intend to check this data?
- In principle, both the RFU and the Moscow Football Federation are guided by the documents that are issued by the state authorities of the Russian Federation. And to doubt the authenticity of official documents is not our function. This is a rather strange story. Nevertheless, if interested parties have the opportunity to appeal to law enforcement authorities, and this appeal is received, and then there will be any facts of changes and forgery of documents, and there will be a legal assessment of these facts, then we will react. Including, if the guilt of certain participants of the process is established, we will make decisions on them.
- Has the RFU ever systematically studied the problem of so-called re-signed players and how widespread it is in Russia?
- This problem has existed in sports for a long time. And not only in Russia. The method of its elimination is actually one - it is digitalization. And the interconnection of state systems with the systems (GIS) used by sports federations. Including the GIS "Sport", which is currently being created. There are documents that are obtained at birth. Given that now they are all digitized, albeit only for those citizens who were born in the last 10 years, all the data gets into the information system. Like a SNILS, which a person receives from birth, and it does not change throughout life. It is clear that in the situation with athletes born earlier, changes in documents are still possible. But for those who are accounted for in the current information system, this is practically excluded. The RFU during the passportization of players these data are initially collected. Therefore, it is possible to check the birth certificate, passport and SNILS. And then somehow change them will be very difficult.
- After Fedorishchev's words regarding the money to pay for the services of some intermediaries allegedly influencing the decisions of the referee corps, the RPL issued a press release, where, in particular, it stated that it is in favor of transparency and information openness of the referee corps. Isn't it embarrassing that nothing was said about the transparency of clubs? After all, by logic, if the referees are corrupt, the clubs are primarily interested in this.
- I have never heard any questions about the purity of refereeing from Aleksandr Aleksadrovich Alaev....
- But there was no desire to issue a response statement that the RFU stands for transparency and information openness of the RPL and its clubs?
- Still, such statements have a slightly different motivation. Probably, in a certain sense, information openness can be improved. The only thing I don't like is the presence of public statements on this topic. It always seems to me that the key word in the name "Russian Football Union" is "union". We are an association of clubs, schools, referees, players, coaches and so on, including leagues. Therefore, we would like to solve all initiatives by discussion and mutual argumentation, not by influencing them through the press. It is clear that sometimes you want to tell the press and fans something. But is it necessary to do it? There is a question here. We in the RFU sometimes also want to tell a lot of things, but we prefer to communicate directly with our colleagues. As for Alexander Alexandrovich, you have to understand that there is a certain pressure from the clubs. The position of the league president is very difficult. It is clear that if the clubs demand and ask, he has to react.
- A number of Fedorishchev's statements have once again raised the issue of the influence of agents on the life of clubs. The RFU has been publishing the amounts of agency fees from clubs every year for almost 10 years. Are you concerned that there has been an increase in these payments since around 2017?
- We are concerned about that. There is indeed an increase. We have been bringing this increase to the attention of clubs and leagues. It may be economically justified if clubs are making these deals. But we definitely feel like it needs to be analyzed.
- Is there not at all some deviation from the norms in the relationship "club - agent", when agents, in fact, replace sports departments, and clubs, in fact, outsource the process of team recruitment and the work of academies to persons and organizations that are not responsible for the results and costs?
- There are different agents. And there are different situations when signing a player, whether or not an agent can be involved on the club side. I don't think 99% of clubs dream of signing agents. I'm sure the bulk of clubs would love to avoid it. You have to understand that agents exist all over the world - it's a phenomenon in soccer economics. FIFA tried to regulate agent activity by transferring the commission from clubs to players. Because, in fact, it is the player that the agent provides a service to a greater extent, not the club. But look at what FIFA is facing next. With the fact that in a number of countries it was appealed in national courts, national federations canceled the agent regulations and FIFA was forced to suspend its regulations. And for more than a year now, various federations and legal bodies have been consulted to make a final decision.
- Was it hard for you to work with agents when you were Zenit general director?
- When I worked at Zenit, our club never faced the problem of pressure from an agent. We have always been able to negotiate and resolve any issues.
- Wouldn't it be easier for clubs and federations if we went back to the practice of the mid-2010s, when FIFA deregulated agents, then almost all national federations, including the RFU, did the same, and agents became not subjects of soccer, but ordinary intermediaries resolving their legal disputes in courts of general jurisdiction, rather than in soccer bodies like the Dispute Resolution Chamber?
- It should be understood that by regulating agent activity, FIFA protects the interests not only of clubs and intermediaries. But also the players. Because there are certain violations by agents towards players. And it is still important to regulate this issue in the legal field.
- Is it a soccer legal field or an ordinary one?
- I would say soccer legal field. And I would also say about the importance of awareness-raising work. Because we have many players and their parents do not understand what a soccer agent is, what an agency contract is, what can be written in it, what is not. Some unscrupulous agents take advantage of this. And I have seen contracts in which were written fabulous amounts of penalties of many millions of dollars. And this is in contracts with players with salaries of, let's say, 100 thousand rubles. Think about it: a player's salary is 100 thousand rubles, and in the agency contract there is a clause about a penalty for non-compliance of several million dollars. This is, of course, a negligible norm. Such clauses have always been canceled in the soccer community - in the dispute resolution chambers and other jurisdictional bodies. But agents purely psychologically take advantage of the situation when players do not realize the price of this contract or do not know where and how to defend their rights. Therefore, it is important to conduct explanatory work with soccer players and their parents. I have come across cases where parents believe that an agent is like an agent in a real estate agency and is an employee of the soccer club, acting simply as a player's manager and promoting his contract. Obviously they are told this sort of thing in order to sign the player's contract. Having legal literacy will help avoid these problems. The RFU, clubs and schools need to work on improving this literacy among young footballers and their parents.
- The current head of the RFU commission on agency activities, Oleg Zhelezhnov, was also the head of the Department of Game Protection for a long time. Is it true that a new person will soon take his place?
- In February, with the end of the term of office of the current RFU executive committee, the term of office of all committees and commissions will also end. After the election of the president and the new composition of the executive committee. Then there will be new heads of all committees and commissions. Now Oleg Vladimirovich occupies exclusively the position of the chairman of the commission on agency activities. His full-time position in the RFU will soon be filled by a new person.
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